Kage-Easy wins

Can any one tell me how to get easy wins with kage?
Ex. Combos, Stratagies, etc.
Thanks


Death Comes to those who wait

 

You mean vs. humans or just beating up the computer?

 

Read the FAQS on this site and on GameFaqs.com

Watch all movies of high level Kage players, some recent movies posted were of a Kage player only tournament, which can be found at VF Evo /versus/images/graemlins/smile.gif .

Complete the Kage tutorials in the trial trainging mode of VF4 (I assume you are playing on the American PS2 version of Virtua Fighter 4).

There are replays on the VF disc that you can watch with the replay viewer of famous Kage players, and most of the combos are performed in those matches.


This is the dedicated Kage page there are several extremely helpful guides here.

 

Wait for your oppoenent to dodge and throw them a - there's a guaranteed + connected.

after anything that whiffs and requires around 6 frames to recover from - + follows.

When you just have to throw, do this one:
+ - it's a bit more foreign to escape, and does decent damage.

Remeber that + decievingly hits from quite a far distance.

Set up guessing games w/ your back-turned when your opponent rises, although most retarded monkies will just lay there and take the down attack - Kage is the best, w/o a doubt, at doing damage w/ his back turned. The high is a throw, mid requires MC, and the low requires a hit - all hurt like shit.

 

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GaijinPunch said:

after anything that whiffs and requires around 6 frames to recover from - + follows.



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Uh...Maybe he does, but at three posts I seriously doubt he has any idea about half the things you said. I think he just wants the basics.

PS: Is this your first time playing VF, and is Kage your first character that you are playing with?

 

I've played VF4 for a while now. Yes Kage is my first character. I also know what the other guys were talking about. Thanks for the advice.

Death comes to all who can't spell

 

Some repeats of stuff gaijin punch said + additions...

Kage's big guns for throws -
b+P+G
b,d+P+G
df+P+G

If your opponent escapes the b+P+G, go with b,d+P+G... and if that fails, go with df+P+G.

If you want to start combos:

---df+P is easy and reliable and safe... but slow. You need a little time to do it, like when you predict they will dodge or when they might try to throw you. A perfect time is after your f+P or df+K hits a crouching opponent... they'll stagger for a second. The df+P isn't free here, but if they try to shake out of the stagger and attack you... the df+P wins. If they shake out and crouch, the df+P wins. If they shake out and dodge the wrong way... df+P wins.

Sometimes, due to its weird hit properties, it just beats faster moves in situations where it shouldn't. So basically, figure out where you can get away with df+P and use it a lot.

The combo that even the pros use is usually df+P --> P --> d+P+K, K
For a little more damage, do df+P --> P --> d+P+K --> f,d,df+P+K.

---when you're crouched, pressing df+P does a fast uppercut. This is pretty much just as good as the other one but much faster. The only catch is you have to be in a crouch to use it. If you block a move, try responding immediately with the FC, DF+P ... or after your d+P, go immediately into a DF+P and it might beat their attack.
Technically this move only going to float as a counterhit to the opponent's attack, but it's pretty reliable.

--moves to use to set up the combos or throws:

f+P (staggers crouchers, very safe)
df+K (slower, but also staggers crouchers and has longer range)
d+P (to stop rushes and sets up the reliable d+P --> throw trick)
P (to stun the opponent long enough that you can gamble on either df+P or throw)
K+G,P (canned combo with insane reach, good for setting up guessing games at long range... do K+G,P,P or K+G,P,throw)

Hope that helped.

 

When people trashed Kage for being too weak pre-Evolution, I expounded on his strengths. Now that popular opinion has reversed, I will play devil's advocate. /versus/images/graemlins/cool.gif

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Wait for your oppoenent to dodge and throw them a

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I would actually recommend against this tactic. With the slap executing in 20+ frames, the timing is pretty tight to hit someone out of an unsuccessful dodge with it.

Also, good players will know how to punish Kages for such tactics. The number of times I wasted advantages by trying a slap only to eat a shoulder-ram...ouch.

Going for a + would be more practical, however less damaging.

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after anything that whiffs and requires around 6 frames to recover from

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GP meant 15 frames. /versus/images/graemlins/wink.gif

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Kage is the best, w/o a doubt, at doing damage w/ his back turned. The high is a throw, mid requires MC, and the low requires a hit - all hurt like shit.

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Come now...what about Jacky's back-turned +? That plus the combo takes a boat load of damage. Plus, it's a middle attack, fairly quick, and difficult to punish.

Also, Lion and Pai have excellent back-turned games...though they're not quite as capable of inflicting the kind of damage that Kage and Jacky can.

 

Kage has the best back turned game.

Let's see, for back turned not only does Kage have a lot of moves from back turned, but also many moves that turn him the opposite way, such as:

-+, and +, it is often easy to play mind games with an opponent who pressures you, deciding between high and mid guard on a backturned Kage can cost the round sometimes.

-Either + or +, I am not sure which one turns you around, but one does, and they are both spinning attacks.

-++, not commonly used, but effective none the less at turning your back.

-+, and + are standards for most characters, and the one for Kage has some float follow ups, including some nice ones for light wheights.

____________________________________________________________________________________


Moves from backturned-

-+ first hits mid, after connects there are several options, the best being + (down attack).

-+, another crumple attack, which can be follwed by +, or a safer ++.

-, you can start several canned combos from a backturned

-+, with the cancels and all that other stuff, this can be a pain to get caught with.

-there are alot more, too!

 

Re: Kage has the best back turned game.

First, your "strats" are Kage basics 101. (It's more like a move list, isn't it).

Second, there's a lot of bad advice in there.

If you're addressing the dumb newbie, can you please clarify up front so you don't annoy people like me??

 

re GP's whiff comment - I think he was talking about a literal whiff... it's hard to catch unless you recall the recent post on punishing dodged attacks vs blocked attacks. A -6 elbow becomes a -16~18 situation when dodged... I think he extrapolated that into "if someone whiffs even a quick -6 elbow-type move in your face, a FC upper will successfully mC before they can block again".

re jacky's hot backturned game (devil's advocate wtf)

...outside of fucking around you never see anyone throwing the blind knuckle while kage players use that great mid uf+K. I know the 'clips defense' isn't such a hot idea so looking at the stats, jacky's starts combos on MC only and the range is limited if you want the free followup combo. It comes out in 18 frames (not blazing speed) and is P counterable. Kage's equivalent is slower, but has long hit detection (5 frames), is + on guard (if I'm reading 1/60th right, +4... that seems huge), and is a free combo on any hit afaik.

If you need something faster and can predict a counterattack, backturned P+K,K is another free combo for kage, tho riskier.

Jacky's backturned low options aren't bad, but they don't crumple like kage's d+K. Kage's turn towards low punch is hot too... + on any hit, and reasonable 14 frame speed.

You can also attempt a throw while your back is turned with kage, which catches people all the time, and you get to avoid a back throw by just tossing in the P afterwards. It's safe if guarded and gives frame advantage if it hits. Tho I'm not sure wtf 1/60th is saying with +2~+14 ... apologies in advance if I'm reading it screwy.

 

Ah, OK now I think I understand the -6 comment.

...outside of fucking around you never see anyone throwing the blind knuckle while kage players use that great mid uf+K. I know the 'clips defense' isn't such a hot idea so looking at the stats, jacky's starts combos on MC only and the range is limited if you want the free followup combo. It comes out in 18 frames (not blazing speed) and is P counterable. Kage's equivalent is slower, but has long hit detection (5 frames), is + on guard (if I'm reading 1/60th right, +4... that seems huge), and is a free combo on any hit afaik.

Jacky's BT + does NOT need MC to combo, just normal hit. (At far range a lot of stuff won't combo, so I don't think that's a criticism reserved just for Jacky). Also, the opponent gets pushed back on block so it's not really throw-counterable.

The difference is that Kage's BT flip is slow enough such that good players can see and dodge on reaction. Ever eaten a bodycheck on the side? Yeah.

If you need something faster and can predict a counterattack, backturned P+K,K is another free combo for kage, tho riskier.

OVERRATED. BT + has incredibly short range and leaves Kage at disadvantage on normal hit. He requires MC for the follow-up kick to hit as a combo and he can't delay the kick to see whether the chop MCs or not. Of course, if Kage goes for the kick and it gets blocked, he's really screwed--screwed as in "Please use your short shoulder against me, I promise I won't do anything for at least five minutes."

Jacky's backturned low options aren't bad, but they don't crumple like kage's d+K. Kage's turn towards low punch is hot too... + on any hit, and reasonable 14 frame speed.

To quickly add, Jacky's two low BT attacks are half-circular, and one of them is a canned string.

You can also attempt a throw while your back is turned with kage, which catches people all the time, and you get to avoid a back throw by just tossing in the P afterwards.

The BT catch throw is overrated...really more of a flash move than anything else. Turning around and throwing is just as effective and probably takes more damage.

Also, the canned from BT + is NOT delayable...i.e. you can't do +, wait to see how the opponent reacts, and then . No no no, you have to choose + or +, right from the get go, and why would anyone in his right mind choose to +, if not just to show off??

 

These posts about Jacky seem a little off topic, I still think that Creed is right about Kages back turned game being greater than Jacky's.

And lots of good Jacky players (High Jin) use the BT p+k all the time.

There is not alot of good Kage footage floating around on the internet, if anyone has any of Kage using BT moves post them.

In a day or so I will go video hunting and give the VFevo links to them

 

people use kage's BT d+K every match

 

Take Ice's comment w/ a grain of salt. If someone does a throw counterable move, then the Yoho or something right after it, you're dead, but more times than not, they're going to dodge, put in a throw escape, or worst case - block. Either way you're safe - it's a non-conterable move, and is Kage's bread and butter. W/o it, he'd be extremely weakened.

About the - yes, I meant whiff (in the goofed up sense) This thing is brutal after a whiff (and to a lesser extent, a dodge)

I stick by my statement on Kage's BT game - unmatched. Lion's is pretty garbage compared to his. One mid (which is low-damage), two lows, also low damage, and one high which has potential high damage, but not near as useable as Kage's stuff. Pai's - good, but not excellent. As stated before, Kage's also got the moves to put turn his back, which is half the battle.

The proof is in the numbers - I recall playing your Kage who had his back turned half the match. /versus/images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

Another neat backturned strategy is to knock your opponent onto the ground with an attack or throw, that will not let your opponent use instant recovery. Once this is set up, use b+k to become back turned.

I have found that the majority of the time, the opponent is they choose to do a rising attack, will almost always choose a low one. The reason is that they expect the Kage player to turn around with a high guard.

To okizeme the low attack you just use the popular ++, attack at the bottom of (Replicant's?) signature. In YonoKage's like third match of VF Evo he did this, it was pretty cool.

If expect a high rising attack, try to get out of range of it, and the move in the a nice Bt move that has a good range to it, or go to JM stance and try to reverse it ( the mid K reversal has to be the most damaing reversal in the game, the followups tack on tons of damage).

 

I think you'll only see that reversal attempted when someone is up two rounds and about to win - it's really easy to tell when it's coming, but it's used so infrequently, it's a nice surprise every now and again.

Most good Kage's will get their back turned when their oppoenent is rising several times in a match. It's truly annoying, but just lying there is the true key - it's much safer. I take the small down attack most of the time.

EDIT:
I forgot something - Lei Fei's BT game isn't bad. Don't confuse it with his stances, where it looks like his back is turned (it's not actually BT though) even give that, it's easier to read (and reverse) than Kage's.

 

A lot of people don't realize wall stages give Kage an advantage. For some nice damage use his + throw and his ,,,+,. If you want to switch stances on the +, it's nice for throwing of someones game.

 

Catching up on old posts...

On my point, the key message is that the move is slow enough such that it isn't really a "safe" move in the way that elbows and LPs are. Kage can only get 30-35% damage from a but can receive 40-50% damage from a Yoho, Lau's +, Pai's , Jeffry's knee, etc. etc.

That's why BDBS ("back dash bitch slap," as someone previously coined) isn't all that great against really good players. Useful, yes. Abusable, hell no.

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The proof is in the numbers - I recall playing your Kage who had his back turned half the match.

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Heh heh, that's why I feel qualified to comment just how good Kage's BT game is. It's not bad, but let's face it...I'd rather fight facing forward.

On a related note, how can we forget Lau's BT game? It's pretty damn good with a half circular low sweep, a damaging and safe mid-starting canned string, a hop kick that beats LPs, quick that floats, and that fast back shoulder thing (+?). And he also has the best move to get his back turned: +

And how can we say Pai's BT game is not excellent? A middle kick that knocks down on hit, a slow but damaging back-turned flip (similar to Kage's), low circular, low blue fist, that weird + thing that hits middle...she has GREAT attacks from BT. Kage's is decent, but he's missing that fast middle. She also has that ultra good + to get her back turned.

Actually, all things said and done, Lei Fei probably has the best BT game...he has the two essential attacks: quick middle and quick low, and I believe his quick middle is uncounterable.

 

Re: -- good point, but the attacks you mentioned waste damn near anything /versus/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

Re: BT --
I'm not dissing the other players BT games, but Kage has high damage (for BT) from high/low/mid -- there are other characters with all three levels, but usually have only one area for nice damage
Lion (High)
Pai (Mid -- good against scrubs. You have to do BT a LOT to finally get this thing working right against most people.) Believe me - it ain't excellent. + was a nice addition - but it's almost exclusively for a stagger follow up LD attack when your opponent is TRing (anticipated a whiffed rise attack).
Lei Fei: Mid -- not bad, and not counterable, but it pushes him so far away, he doesn't have many options either...even on hit, the setup isn't that great unless there's a wall. Also - getting him into BT is the trick. The only way is to cancel a stance.
Shun: Mid (yet everyone still seems to duck). His BT throw I think does the same damage as FT + but w/ no DPs. Definitely less than Kage's.
Lau: Shoulder thing ain't bad, but is very counterable, and you see it much less than the standard x50 follow-up. Low half-crescent -- I'll let him knock me over any day rather than deal w/ the barrage of fists.
Aoi: Reversal is the only thing half descent from BT
Kage
High : the throw
Mid : + - I know it's not that fast, but when it's used properly, it's a ton of damage. Or, just come around w/ the +. By the time they realize the isn't coming, there's not much advantage/disadvantage either way.
Low: - also high damage, and fast.

Your arguments are quite valid, but I play a lot of different people, and lately, a bunch of different Kage's. BT is a huge part of the game...more than the other characters, so I stick by my argument. /versus/images/graemlins/smile.gif