How can Shun punish Lei?

I've seen many folks loose against Lei when he lands a move, either on hit or block, and he just keeps going and u try to punish just to get hit again. And they're just there doing random moves with the ocassional low hitting move just going and going thinking that they're the shit doing something that for me has no merit and does NOT require mind games( my honest opinion that won't change based on the fact that I use Lei too so I know both sides of the coin) Well I wanna show those Lei players some manners and force them to try harder. A little frustration for them for a change would be educational. As they see their strings/tactis interrupted continuosly or punished after moves.ALL HELP/FEEDBACK greatly appreciated. (no debunking please since my mind won't change let me stress it I USE LEI TOO I KNOW HOW HE WORKS really don't defend him anymore its very easy to keep doing moves over and over and THATS THAT AND MANY PLAYERS experience it. So please JUST HELP thanks)

 

Well, I don't use Shun, so I can't name specific good moves for him.

BUT I do have much more experience than most at beating really, really good lei-fei players... the basic key is to learn when lei-fei isn't completely safe and interrupt him. Just low punching is one of the best basic options, and will really shut down any button masher. Especially if you can hit check a low punch counter hit, and force nitaku.

Lei-feis biggest strength is his ability to continually attack as he does, but his biggest weakness is that once he's interrupted, his options to get back at advantage tend to be fairly limited and predictable. So stick with the safe, fast high punch and low punch interruption options, and then just stay abare against him, against any weak lei-fei, they tend to lose to the same style they abuse.

 

LOL LOL very good Sorias.!!! yes they lose against their own false confidence. But maybe it'll only work vs weak Lei's since advanced ones will be on the lookout for that based on experience. Personally, using low K from maximum range works fine, If blocked I get ready to crouch backdash,evade or 2-4 K, 8 K+G, 33P, or some retarded stuff like 1 P+KP, or 4K-K. Even 7P makes them scratch their head. As well as 4K+G(hold)---follow up of choice. Just to see how they react. Hey I think we met online, sorry for lag. I wont be back until I get my new 5 MEGA service. Its the only way to play vs. all the skilled folks like u if one lives in this country. (Puerto Rico)

 

Dodge!

That works best for me. So many of Lei's moves will beat so many attacks, especially during his various stances. I just dodge (and attack).

Another move Lei players love to do (even really good ones) is his charging lunge attack. You can very often envoke this move just from creating distance. Again, dodge and attack. Or if you there are too far away and you know the lunge will fall short just dash in and throw.

The best way to envoke the move mentioned above though is not just to back up. That may work but a better way is to constantly attack even when your opponent isn't even close to you. This adds to confusion or makes your opponenet think he can hit you. A great way to add distance while doing moves is /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gifor/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif then /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif. I would choose /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif though just in case it hits (major damage and possibly a pounce). I can't tell you how many times I have made Lei players go for the lunge after that scenario.

After rolling away you will have created great distance so immediately take a drink with /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif. Then do the whole thing over again if you want. Another good move to create distance instead of /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif is /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d_.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif (do it in a back crouch dash though), then go for the turnaround move, roll away, and drink. Rinse & repeat. JK

If anyone thinks this is somewhat a machi (turtle) technique I can see why, but really it's a great method of creating confusion and also enabling Shun to do what he's supposed to do, DRINK.

Something I rarely see Shun players use is Shun's handstand kick. For anyone that doesn't know, it is easily the BEST rising kick destroyer in the game. That's really the only time it should be used. There are a couple situations to set it up. One of the easiest ones is after /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/u.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif do /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif,/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif. If your opponent quick rolls he will most likely attack since you're on your hands. Just do the kick and watch out. This will knock them down. Right after advance toward them and try again. Or, if they don't quick roll they will 99% of the time do a rising kick. Just do the kick again the moment you see movement. Do it again if they try to do another rising kick.

The best thing about the above scenario is that after two or even three failed rising kick attempts your opponent will just stand up in fear. Guess what, do the upside down leg throw for huge damage. I've had many rounds where it goes something like this: setup the situation as mentioned above, do the handstand kick two or three times to counter the rising kick, after all that do the leg throw, opponent now has hardly any life or is KO'd.

One last word of advice is try to setup a situation for Shun's lying down /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif (need 10+ drinks). The easiest way to setup is to cancel the roll from upside down. If you know your opponent is hip to this just do /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif and then throw.

Hope this helps!

 

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> One last word of advice is try to setup a situation for Shun's lying down /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif (need 10+ drinks). The easiest way to setup is to cancel the roll from upside down. If you know your opponent is hip to this just do /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif and then throw. </div></div>

Do you have any advice on how to set this attack up? I have had no luck using this vs Lei. Lei players generally just lung attack into me or sweep kick me.

Also if i can land a low /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif, i like to follow up with /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df_.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif for the stomach crumple on counter hit or /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif + /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif,/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif for a side crumple on counter hit.
This seems to work well for those Leis that just wont stop attacking.

 

There unfortunately aren't many ways (guaranteed ways) of setting up the lying down /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif. One way that works best is canceling the upside down roll from far away. Basically if you have some distance between your opponent do /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/u.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif then go into the roll and lay down. Or sometimes even just lay down whenever you want. The nice thing about that is if you get hit you can never get combo'd.

As far as low /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif into /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df_.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif, I don't do this as much as I did in VF4. Not sure why but /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif after low /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif is definitely the best. After that, instead of side kicking, hold /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif to go into the one-leg stance. From there the obvious choice is /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif, or /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif, or lay down, or /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif into anything. ...so many choices.

I just thought of another scenario for going into lying down /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif. After landing a hook punch (/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif) go into SOU cancel with /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif and do the overhead leg tumble (/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif) and press and hold /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif to lay down. Many times people will have quick rolled and try to attack but it's too late. Or if they do a high rising kick it will go over you.

Actually I don't go into that right after the hook punch. I usually do another one, or jab and another one, or /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif, and then go into SOU cancel.

I hope this isn't confusing at all.

 

Ratgoat. Against Lei u have to be very ANNOYING. So they get angry and do exactly want u want them to do. Generally this is done by interrupting his moves with quick hitting moves and evade. Make them BLOCK certain moves. Example. Low K, then K+Ghold--P+K--Low K--low P--watch for evade--K+Ghold--PP--or K+GholdPP--cancel P into BKSOU lowK. Or K+Ghold--THROW. Or ( to answer your Question) K+Ghold--2P+K+G--Now you are lying down and able to go into the KP2KK string because they where blocking. Most will try to attack out of reaction when they see you lying down, usually you'll hit them first for big damage. Remember K+G is crucial for Shun cuz its mid has so many follow ups. K+Ghold--K+G is great!! Also from long distance do K+G P. The K+G misses but P hits cuz it goes far and hits opponents that rush after they see K+G missing. Remember most Lei are overconfident cuz they've been relaying on his ability to hit u first all the time. Old habits die hard.

 

Understanding leifei each and every of his moves helps. Which is to say that You have to play leifei personally yourself to see how strong he and how felxible he is now at vf5. I used to be very crazy about leifei in the past, now using shun di makes me realize that he is much more user friendy. Perhaps winning leifei is to be faster than him I guess.

 

If your opponent is more on the offensive than deffensive, I suggest /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif -> /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif - > combo.

On block, you'll beat out a lot of his moves. On hit I suspect you'll beat almost all of them, and on CH he goes flying if he tries anything other than blocking, dodge or low punch. Even then I'm not sure about the low punch.

Again this is assuming that the Lei has an almost complete disreguard for blocking.

 

I'd use /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif. It's safer, easier to connect, and pretty easy to setup compared to the handstand jazz.

 

actually vs lei if you follow up a guarded /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif with /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif, you will lose to leis /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif, /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif and /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif which is on average abnormal against most characters. In most cases the /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif will usually beat out the opponents /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif or fast mid after your /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif is blocked.

 

Yeah it wouldn't be a great idea to go for the Chouwan on guard against a Lei that spams /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif.

 

well chouwan after p guarded just inst a good idea against lei in general if they know what they are doing. not just the /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif stuff but his fast mid and /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif. the safest and most common options will beat out the chouwan.

 

Fair enough.

 

I found that /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif really annoy the hell out of Lei players. When they won't stop charging, i'm just spamming it until they cool down a bit. Then, it's a brand new fight. Probably works only againts the type of lei players that the OP describe though.

 

A simple problem that you have when facing Lei Fei is that you need to be able to articulate what moves trouble you most.

Simply being able to identify which moves you are being hit by is a great start. As you your post is vague its safe to say you have NFI what the lei is doing which is probably why you are being owned.

If you really do know how to use Lei you should be able to understand his weaknesses.

If he Bukutai then 2K him out

Duck/Fuzzy the first punch of the /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif string.
Dodge the second punch. Proceed to own Lei

Guard the /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif + /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif , /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif , and own him afterwards.

You need to understand what range Lei Fei is effective at and use range to your advantage.

Know when to dodge.

/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/u.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif + /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif is important to prevent him using his sabakis or punch reversals.


If LeiFei is able to keep going and going its simply cause your defense is poor and you choose to do nothing while he has another attempt to keep attacking.