Guard Jail after successful Evade Dash Cancel Guard

So I'm playing around with different stuff and I came across something VERY strange that is news to me and possibly others. After you use a evade dash cancel into guard (you've successfully canceled a failed evade this is very important part of the finding) and you block something, particularly if it is a string, YOU LOSE the ability to EVADE afterwards. If you try to evade you will just get hit. It doesn't have to just be a circular, it can just be a plain old delayed attack. This is a massive weakness, as you can keep someone from evading you during a string that would otherwise be unwise to throw out due to stepping.

Now there is a limit. What i mean is there is some amount of frames you need in order to regain your evade back between the two attacks in a string. I don't know what that is at the moment. For example if eileen does 6P+KPP you can't evade the 2nd punch, but you can evade the third. However if she does 6PPK you can't evade the 2nd punch or the third kick. The 3rd hit in the punch string is far slower than the kick in the second string so I can only assume there is a frame limit in play here.

I would like to know how long can you deny someone the ability to evade. All you can do when in (coining term) "Evade Jail" [ F it I found it after all alt name: "Tricky Evade Jail"] is fuzzy guard.

edit: for 3 move strings. If you let yourself get hit by the 2nd move in the string, or it's a high attack that you can duck, you then can evade again. Also if the 2nd move in a string is a low you can jump over it using stuff like eileen's 9P.

 

Fair Clarity sake this tech is only in reference to when you have successfully blocked due to canceling your evade.

edit 2: weakness applies to any attack blocked, or ducked due to ECD

 

I wouldn't be surprised that you need 23 frames after the beginning of the first (canceled in this case) evade in order to evade again.

I don't have the skill to check that however.

 

from the sounds of this, crouch dashing only cancels the animation of the failed evade but the recovery frames are still accounted for.

 

That's what it appears.

 

Nice findings Tricky.
I've messed a little bit in dojo and tried to calculate the value you are searching.
Here's what I've found.

Record Kage doing:
6P (hit, +0, 14 frames of startup), 664P (block, +1, 13 frames of startup; the dash is there for consume 1 frame and made the 13 frame elbow become 14 like the minimum frame you need for an EFDG), 9K+G (30 frames of startup).

The first two moves are perfect to make an exact EFDG (so there aren't wasted frames) and being -1 after blocking 4P is again perfect for being sure that the next evade, the crucial one, should not be a failed one due to inputting it before the third move starts.

With this setup I have been able only a few time to evade the 9K+G by inputting the evade at the very last frames of the 30 frames startup 9K+G meaning that the evade jail time is less than 29 frames.
Not beig able to use the 10 frames buffer makes this research in dojo quite complicate (it's a test that gives a result only if we are succesfull and we'd need a set of moves for the third one to cover all the values from 11 to 29).

But using a programmable controller (Noodalls???) it should be a piece of cake.
The setup I wrote before it's perfect: just program to input the evade at different times of the 9K+G startup till you'll find the value.

After that we should calculate if this jail time is dependant only by the total amount after your EFDG or by the time of EFDG + X frames after or other cases. (the setup I proposed before is good because it avoids all these other cases)

 

This is some good shit Tricky... I made a recording to this. I guess the failed evade ticks is still active.

 

Yeah blackstar check out tonight's stream I'll explain the tech and show it some more there too. You got a chance to see me try do it last night with GT and others in the room, but the stream is probably the best place to see and explain this kind of thing.

From some more testing I did last night it seems this evade jail only lasts for one move, so the 3rd hit in a string can be evaded. The strange part is that the buffer window for when you can evade the 3rd string moves. If you buffer the evade at the earliest moment like you could normally from block, you will get hit every time. However if you enter he evade late in the buffer window, you then are allowed to evade. I think if someone had a programmable controller we could find out very quickly what the frame limits are, as it seems to be related to the buffer window. Like why would you be allowed to evade later in a buffer window? So strange.

Also another thing I found is that some strings will hit you if you just try to do a raw evade. However if you evade dash cancel a second time you will be able to cancel this for lack of a better term right now "failed evade recovery" frames to block.

So from those two findings I'm betting that a certain amount of frames need to pass after you've blocked a string due to dash canceled evade guard, before you can input an evade without having to deal with the "failed evade recovery" frames.


I gotta say I'm real excited to have found some brand new tech in this game. I am sure the japan players know about this strange behavior, but I don't know if they fully understand how it works since they haven't had a dojo mode to test things out in like we have now. If we can learn the system rule that controls this behavior then we could just look at the frames in a string instead of having to test each thing out one by one like we do right now.

All this tech really does is give you a reason to do a delayed attack to punish a failed evade cancel, instead of having to only rely on circulars.

If japan doesn't know about this though, then they might be a shifting of the tiers.

Edit: Japan knows