Goh's 2 or 8K+G

@Myke

It appears that he can attack in disadvantage and beat opponents options from -5 to -9 and gain +4.
At -4 he can't use this and core rules apply against him.

Visually it looks like a sidestep evade move then goes back to where it started.

Ex: goh applies 33p+k>blocked>2_8k+g(+4).
Try all the fastest pokes, throws, etc.
Thanks for putting this up!

 

1. Tricky:
   it's 22 frame exe. it should beat 12f moves from +10.
2. Tricky:
   what attack and what range are you testing it from?

We need more specifics to answer the question. Is this point blank range, 1 blocked 2p range, 2 blocked 2p range, What attack is it beating at that range, and vs which character?

 

Tricky: I've tested it already vs p/2p/throw/6p, but haven't tried vs slow full circular from -5 to -9. The 2k+g just avoids it and scores +4 vs basic pokes.

When I get home from work I'll test it vs. 2 piece moves. Ex: lions 4p,p to see if it interrupts.

Edit: can't exactly be sure w/programming, but looks like k+g full circular and 3k beats the situation if they commit to -6 to -9 then 2k+g.

Having said that, now goh can mixup and interrupt the k+g or 3k at high disadvantage with pokes, but then so can defending opponent being able to go back to traditional core rules.

Another thing, -6 to -9>2k+g>beats 2p/11fr p/6p/throw.

Best max range test is goh's k+g at -6.
If opponent 3k's a 11 frame p interrupts 3k.(+4)
If opponent k+g a 14 frame 46p interrupts k+g.(72pts base w/o oki.)

 

The first 7 frames of the move have evasive properties. It's in the Q&A thread I think.

EDIT: The discussion goes for a few messages after that.
https://virtuafighter.com/threads/goh-q-a-thread.17993/page-2#post-386096

 

At -6 thru -9(point blank) this 22f move beats P , 2p , 6p , throw(obviously)... that is NUTZ !

Its almost a "distance nitaku" without the actual distance. I have to use all 6 frames and choose a 17 or 18f "range" attack if I want to stop this. Just like the "distance nitaku" situation.

 

I find the least risky and percentage wise best answer in these types of situations is to backdash. Often times you're too far away to get hit with a sidekick backdash stagger in these types of situations even if you don't evade dash cancel asap.

 

Absolutely, backdash launch even has some success in that scenario. But I kept seeing it so often that I had to figure out how to use that adv. when throw AND p,2p,6p no longer worked.

Againt my regulars (Tim), this occurs frequently enough that he used to punish my backdash alot (not with 3k, but other "range"attacks) When opponent chooses an attack with not quite enough range, thats when my backdash launch succeeds.

It became its own meta world. Ill call it "ranged nitaku" and Im betting each character has a 17/18f "range attack" to close the gap and still win out over a P or 2p.

 

The main time i've seen it work is when my or is blocked. And my opponent also goes for a . I perform / and just sway right the fuck out the way while hitting them low.

 

Im gonna test today to be sure, but one thought I have is that the test *may* not be accurate. Allow me to explain... sometimes in Dojo, you record cpu, when doing so, the "opponent" does not guard but takes the hit, then on playback test, We guard the K instead of get hit by it. This has led to wasted frames in some tests of mine. And therfore incorrect results. One way to doublecheck would be to create the same minus 6 from a normal hit instead of a guard (perhaps 2k) and see if you get different results.

 

This only comes up if you don't properly take in to account frame buffering properly. Buffer your inputs in such a way that it won't matter.

 

Tricky, gimie a minute, ill get back to that issue.

After test, Myke is correct (as usual) With strange exception (at least one). It wont beat 6p -1 thru -9 in general, But at -8 or -9 after (goh's) 33 p+k is guarded, it DOES beat 6p, 2p, P. Dont know why or what other guarded moves might yield same result. Is this due to pushback from 33p+k ?

 

Regarding Record/Playback discrepancies.

Core example: Record 3 "perfect" Punches in a row (P,gP,gPg) ... playback... it was buffered input perfectly and all 3 P hit as expected.

Now playback but Guard the Punch(s) this time... The 3rd P wont come out,... I believe this may be because the input window is not identical in both scenarios therefore a "perfect buffered" input may be different on hit, then on guard.

This effect has appeared in countless dojo sessions for me. I often find the "fix" to be a slightly slower, slightly delayed input that when guarded in playback mode, now become the "perfectly timed input".

I dont know if I explained it well, and I may just be missing/not understanding something.

 

Yeah, it comes down to the buffer timing being different. I don't understand the input buffer system well enough to explain it but what I do is use the timing I would need to use for if I blocked it. Generally, that means inputting things sooner than I would if they hit. I basically use the input timing i would have needed if it was blocked because I have that timing in my hands.

 

i remember the using this move on people from -5 to -9 and being accused of lagging and having no knowledge of frames by certain lion players...