FS Sabaki list? Why aren't sabaki details on Commands section?

Hi all,

I'm making my own Final Showdown moves lists (for my own reference) and I've been looking at the command section for information on each characters sabaki(s)/inashi(s) and specifically what hit heights they actually parry or deflect (successful versus HP and LP, just Mid Kicks etc)

How come this crucial information isn't listed on the Commands section in its own box? When everything else is (even something useless like 'Super Replay' for instance) Or have I just missed it?

Surely it's integral to playing a character properly to note all of this info? For example, if I'm playing someone who I've noted favours a mid kick after a certain action, I'll just start doing Aoi's b K+G more often, or whatever) This is certainly more important than the Sober details on each move, for example.

Or is this information listed for each character anywhere else on vfdc? I've had to pore through pages of discussion on specific characters to find little bits of this info (topics such as discussion on a character's "best moves" - so if someone deems a certain sabaki as not one of a characters best moves, where is this information listed?). Doing it this way took me ages to find the info on each sabaki and I'm still not guaranteed to find details on all of a character's sabakis.

Surely, it wouldn't take someone who knows the game inside out to attach this information to the Command list section? And there certainly won't be a shortage of such people on this forum I'm guessing...

 

I find it odd too that both sabaki info and the class of the move are missing on the FS command lists when Ver. C data has everything. But whatever the reason, one can always go into dojo to look up what moves does a sabaki take atleast until they're all up somewhere.

 

The ver c sabaki's are incorrect for a lot of VF character move changes. We need to get up on those sabaki commands asap! I'm tired of guessing what sabaki's what.

 

Yeah Tricky, I'm fed up of guessing instead of just knowing once and for all which move(s) is/are beaten by which sabaki/inashi so this reference would really help. Thanks for agreeing with me !

At first, I thought there might be a reason I couldn't see it or why it wasn't up there and you'd all grief me for pointing the problem out! But I'm sure it would make things a lot easier and more useful for everyone if this information was noted there for quick reference.

Just a short and simple HP, MK, LP notation in one of the boxes next to the other properties info would suffice.

Can someone get on it, please!

 

This kind of info normally came from the masters guides, as well as the odd bit of testing for minor details that were missing.

I guess this info wasn't present in the master guide for FS, otherwise the mods would have it up.

 

Mmm, I see. But it's all stuff that people on here know without referring to something else though. It's not like having to cite your sources like on wiki.

So wouldn't it be easy to assemble a list that everyone can contribute to and get the info up here once and for all (before VF6 when it all changes again, preferably) - for example, most Sarah players will know what her three sabakis parry, most El Blaze's know what his sabaki deflects etc. Hope so.

 

Eileen's 4P+K+G sabaki's high punches and kicks. It also sabaki's all low punch class attacks.

edit: lets just put it here! Make the list folks

 

For Aoi:

- Effective at -9 or better
Works against high kick, mid kick, side kick and knee attack.

- Effective at -9 or better
Works against high punch, mid punch, elbow and high elbow.

- Effective at -1 or better
Hit-throw activates against high punch or low punch.
And on an unrelated note, a plain counter hit by this move can also start a moderate damage combo.

Kruza

 

That's exactly the reason. Plus, it's not a matter of using the old sabaki information. As Kruza pointed out above, Aoi's , for instance, is a sabaki against knees. I don't think it was like that before. It will take time to update all of the lists, but here's an idea:

If you know your character well, please post this information in this thread or maybe somewhere within a character thread and link to it here. For Brad:

P+K+G is a move the Masters Guide places in miscellaneous. It works against the following:

All mid kicks except for certain kinds such as somersault kicks. I'm fairly certain that it won't work against Akira's 9K either, so I don't think it will work against jumping kicks. It will work against a move such as Wolf's 6K+G, which isn't technically a jumping kick, I guess. Any sort of rolling kick, such as Kage's Jumonji PKK, won't get caught by this either.

 

Yeah I know the old sabaki information is now erroneous as it changes between versions and as new moves are added.

Great idea about just writing the info on the character you know inside-out in this thread (and sorting out where it goes officially later I guess).

Thanks for your information Tricky, Kruza and Libertine. I've incorporated it into my moves list now!

Great! just 16 characters to go. Although I thought there were one or two characters who don't have any sabakis...? Anyway, thanks guys.

 

Well, Taka has 3 (tecnically 2) "sabakies", ++, BT ++ and .

++ and BT ++ are both technically the same move; Taka goes into a Cross Counter "hit me!" pose and will armor against P, MP, EL and HE class strikes that do not knock down or have a hit throw and then retaliate with an unblockable s.high half circular slap. Does 50 damage on normal hit, but often hits as an RC hit so 58 damage is pretty common, and 35 damage if it hits the opponent's back. The normal hit can't be tech rolled but the back hit can be. It has a long active window and starts pretty early, you can use it to cut through strings and such. Now there is a few points in this move of which some where mentioned before; 1) It's not a true sabaki in the sense that it doesn't halt the opponent's attack like a typical sabaki, it will only slow them down as evident when using it against strings; if hit in the sabaki the opponent will keep pulling the attacks like normal but at much reduced speed as Taka invokes his space and time manipulating sumo magics which makes it possible for multiple hits to go into the sabaki which Taka will just eat like a champion and then slap the shit out of you, 2) It will not work against hit throws no matter the class (example SPoD, Goh (4P)P, etc.) those will come through and Taka will take the full damage from the move, it will also not work on moves that knock down (example Wolf 4P, etc.) 3) Taka does take damage from the moves as normal as they are armored, again unlike a true sabaki but he cannot be counter hit out of the sabaki and 4) the slap can be baited with a normal punch as it has some start-up time (31f lol), you can punch Taka to activate the move, then duck the slap and punish him (just don't do a low or 2P or you'll be sorry) You can also throw Taka at any point as he's just standing there. BT ++ is the same move with the same properties but Taka is just backwards

AKA the super chop. Unlike 4P+K+G this one is an actual attack; Taka does a mighty "cut a mofo down" chop which will, again, armor against P, MP, EL and HE class strikes that do not knock down or have a hit throw. 25 damage on normal hit, but again RC hits are common so 31 damage, and gives +4 advantage + OC, on CH you get a juggle. Again has a loooong active window which starts pretty early, so you "can" use this to go through strings or just as a clutch move and try to counter hit them for a juggle, but unlike 4P+K+G this move does not use space and time manipulating sumo magics in that it does not slow the attacker down as he keeps pulling hits, so it is possible to be CH'd out of this yourself! It also has only one armor point (or whatever you want to call it) so it will not eat multiple hits, just one. So as you might imagine this one doesn't work nearly as well as 4P+K+G, but getting that CH can be pretty lucrative although difficult to achieve, you'd pretty much have to hope that the opponent did a slow enough string so that the chop can fit in between the hits and CH them. On the plus side although this move can also be "baited" with a P as it has some start-up again (25f lol) but generally you are much safer as this move is a mid and it's only -8 on block (although Goh can just P, 4P+K+G if hit early enough lol)

Finally, contrary to what some might belive, Tachi'ai 4P+K+G does not sabaki or armor anything.

 

For Sarah, + is unchanged from vanilla as far as I can tell (which means it sabakis high/mid punches, high/mid elbows and mid kicks/side kicks).

Fl/step + reverses low punches and low kicks. I don't remember it working against low kicks in vanilla (and according to the move list it didn't).

Back slide sabaki works against high/mid punches and elbows.

If I'm missing something please add to this.

 

Yeah thanks, I thought that sabaki was only to stop crouch punchers in older versions. Interesting.

 

I wish! doesn't sabaki mid punch.

I would gladly fill out Aoi's sabaki and move properties to the wiki but we all can't just freely edit it.

 

I just caught that oversight. Thanks for the correction Tiripsem.

Also forgot to mention before about elbow attacks, so I included that info as well.

Kruza

 

Come on guys, if you know your character well in Final Showdown (and of course you do!) please put their sabaki info in here.

14 characters to go for a complete list!

 

Both Lau and Jeffry has no reversals or sabakies.

 

I like your initiative.

For previous games, Sega had listed the class for each attack on an official game guide.

They did not with Final Showdown, which is why the class column is absent from the command list for FS on the site.

Since the class of attack is not officially known, each move that can sabaki is listed with no further explanation.

I'll help listing Goh's sabakis to the best of my knowledge.

- high punch [HP], mid punch [MP] and elbow [EL]
- high kick [HK], mid kick [MK], side kick [SK] and knee [KN]. It does not sabaki crescent kicks or somersault kicks
- low punch [LP], low kick [LK]. It does not beat low sweeps.
- standard throws . Command works only right after Goh has started in the process of being thrown. I don't think you can sabaki catch throws.

 

Shag, when you say crescent kicks do you mean half circular kicks? Like Eileen's 4K I'd consider a crescent kick in the literal sense.