Evolution Akira Impressions

I have been wanting to get this info down for a while since I came back from Japan, but a recent trip to the hospital, work etc. have kept me busy, so I’m just getting to it now. I think most of it will be useful, since many people still haven’t played Evo, and real info about the game seems sparse right now. When I have time, I’ll post more about the game in general and playing in Japan.

I think anyone that’s used to ver. C Akira will be a little frustrated/disheartened at first when using him in Evo, as many of his properties have been changed, and his new moves take a lot of practice to learn to use well. This combined with the fact that almost every other character has gotten useful new moves, new throws, and had their animations changed (which can be really confusing at first) will make it seem like everyone else has gotten stronger while Akira got weaker.

But, this isn’t really the case. If anything, it seems that AM2 wants Akira players to move further away from using simple, reliable moves/combos and towards going for bigger damage by guessing correctly at the right time, and using more high skill commands. Basically, I think Akira has been powered up, but you’ll have to re-learn his tactics a little if you want to unlock his new potential. He’s even more of an enthusiast, or “maniac†character now. You can still play Akira like Ver C somewhat, but I wouldn’t really recommend it; he can bite off much bigger chunks now if you practice his new ideas.


Lost/changed:

shoulder (D, f+P+K) float is much lower
d/b+P+G, DblPm no longer guaranteed (nothing is guaranteed after d/b+P+G)
SPOD damage lowered, TR'able
d/f+P+G damage lowered slightly
DblPm range shortened, recovery lengthened to elbow class
PIT-RBC-SDE float lowered, DblPm and AS3 are only sure bets as of now
more characters can struggle out of b, d+P+G- Single Palm
the P+K+G (1st hit of SPOD) recovery has been lengthened to above Knee class
against the wall, the single palm is Throw Counterable
the b+P+K+G's sabaki time is shorter (the f+P has less chance of hitting)


Gains:

after PIT-P+K, P,K is now guaranteed, and DblPm will still combo as well
the ShinIha's (d/b, f+P+G) damage has gone up, and even at TR it's damage can't be lessened now
the b, d/f+P+G's damage has gone up slightly
The yoho gives a better float (it's the best now), and it’s recovery has been shortened to Middle P class
the b, d/f+P gives a guaranteed DblPm on counter hit
Akira’s Back Throw is no longer a Catch Throw


New Moves:

f+P, b (mid): new middle punch/body blow. Staggers crouchers, better range than old f+P, can be followed with canned backstep. While some people fool around with this move, most Akira players seem to find it not so interesting. The problem with it is that while it’s nice that the f+P will stagger, you have to enter the b almost immediately if you want the backstep; which doesn’t really give you enough time to see if you really should be backing up (guarded) or not (stagger). While with considerable practice you could probably learn to see what was going to happen in time to react accordingly, seems like most people (including me) would rather just use the DE or SDE.

When guarded, the f+P gives “same as DE†recovery according to Dorimaga, which is –3. After the backstep, SDE and d/f+P+K will work well to interupt your oppt’s moves.

K+G, P (mid, mid): standing Knee followed with elbow drop. 1st hit will stagger crouchers, allowing P combo. On counter, the K+G floats, but as it's recovery is slow and the float is low, I haven't found any way to combo after just K+G, aside from P. This move hits really low, even OTB, so it’s an absolute combo after any kind of shoulder hit. Some Akiras, like 1st Angel, use ONLY this move after the shoulder (guess they don’t want to watch stance/hit type). In regular fighting, it can be useful, but is a little dangerous as it has long recovery, and if the oppt dodges to Akira’s back during the 1st hit, and Akira finishes the combo, they’ll be almost directly behind him (he moves forward a decent amount). It gives decent damage, but in cases like after b, f+P you’re still better off with a different move; even though the K+G, P works against everyone regardless of stance and is easy. Some also use it after KD’s, but again, there are better options. If command input or watching stance are issues, this move is for you.

D, f+P,P (mid, mid): Single Palm followed with SDE-like elbow. The timing is really tight (I’d say you have 2-3 frames to get it right), you should tap the button just the moment before he connects; the whole command is pretty quick. It cannot be delayed, and if the palm whiffs, the elbow will not come out. Many people block the palm and eat the elbow, especially since it comes out so soon after the palm. If the palm hits crouching guarders (no damage, just guard break), the SDE is guaranteed. Since the SDE always floats, the only real combo potential is maybe a low kick if they don't TR; but if the SDE (or both hits) hits them into the wall, you can follow with a knee bounce combo for big damage, Mukki uses this a lot. I have only seen the palm hit and the elbow miss ONE time, which was yesterday, actually. I was at long range, and the palm seemed to push them just out of range for the elbow. As of now, I think this was a glitch.

Also, after a counter SDE, the Single PM- SDE takes more damage than DJK, and gives better okizeme. If they QR, you'll be in a perfect spot for nitaku, and if they TR, you know what to do. AFAIK, the combo cannot be done after the palm is buffered into any kusushi (d/b+P+G, b, d+P+G, breakguard etc). Finally, the Palm-SDE combo is not counterable at all (like SDE recovery), so if people guard and try to throw, you can hit them with the attack of your choice. This little trick can be practiced against the CPU, since it usually tries to throw after guarding this combo.

Knee (mid): Akira’s knee’s animation has changed, and he no longer jumps, but the knee still seems to beat most low attacks/rising attacks. It may have better range, but I’m not positive. Overall, seems like it’s better. Most of the old Shoulder combos (and of course Knee combos) can now be done from the Knee. It also makes the nice “PING†sound now, and hits OTB.

d/b+P+K+G: special backstep that can be followed with P (like DE), P+K Sabaki against High/Mid punches and elbows, High kicks and knees, follow with f+P for floating punch; or K for low kick that looks like Akira’s new d+K. I'd try starting with the P followup. There are 2 timings, you've got nice advantage on normal hit (try following with a throw), and can combo after a counter hit (DLC or DblPm). Crouching hit staggers. Like most of his elbows, this one also isn’t counterable, but it really shouldn’t be, as you can see it coming a mile away. I’d guess somewhere between 3 and 6 frames recovery. Using the d/b+P+K+G is one of the really fun things about Evo Akira, and rather than get into a lot of detail about how I use it, I’ll just let you figure it out (it’ll be more fun for you that way ).


d/f+K+G, f+P, u or d (mid, mid): Akira can now dodge to the side and show his back after the first 2 hits of the DLC. From here he can use any TT attacks. Another move I like to use a lot, even though it seems like most Akiras don’t. This makes the DLC actually useable on the ground, but be careful about back throw during the step. If you can hit/guard with the first 2 hits and get the step, you can force all kinds of guessing games with his back showing. This kind of game was previously unavailable to Akira, but now he can show his back without having to do a useless TA attack. It really adds a lot of color to Akira’s game. Also fun to screw around with during floats. If you get the step, P+K to hit it looks cool, but the damage is small.

TT d+P (mid): Akira’s old overhead punch has been replaced with an overhead smash that looks like the b, f+P+K+G but he smashes downwards with both hands. I’m pretty sure it floats on counter.

TT P+K (mid): steps toward oppt with a bodycheck. Weak damage in floats, good damage on counter at standing.

There have been other small tweaks in animation etc, but I’ll try to mention them case-by-case.

AKIRA’S THROWS

I want to start by talking about Akira’s Throw game, because it seems to have undergone serious tweaking from AM2, which to me means they have a definite idea about how they want Akira to function with regard to his throws. The RBC, back throw and d/b, f+P+G were all made better (minor damage improvement for RBC; damage up with no TR’able damage for d/b, f+P+G; and graduation to non-Catch status for the back throw). Yet the d/f+P+G, b, d+P+G and d/b+P+G all got worse. The d/f+P+G’s damage went down a little, nothing is guaranteed after the d/b+P+G, and while only Wolf and Jeffry could struggle out of the b, d+P+G- Single Palm combo, more characters can also do it now. Dorimaga says the ability to do so “depends on the characterâ€Â, but I’ve seen Pai, Goh, Wolf, and Jeffry guard it, and that pretty much runs the spectrum of weight/speed.

So while Akira has throws in 4 of the 5 common throw directions, his best options can be DoubleTE’d with f+P+G, d/f+P+G (which Japanese players are really good at). This forces players to rely more on d/b+P+G and b, d+P+G, yet both of these throws have gone from weak to weaker in essence. The d/b+P+G’s classic Double Palm followup has been removed (just hold G to guard it), and of course it nets Akira 0 damage by itself. The b, d+P+G’s best option: Single Palm, Double Palm can still be done to people/characters who can’t struggle, but it’s still extremely difficult to do consistently for most Akiras (I’d say about 1 in 5 Japanese Akira players can do it well). Either way, it’s still a lot of work (8 taps of the lever and 4 buttons) for just 60 points. Most magazines are now recommending following with the guaranteed DblPm for a sure 40 points.

Akira’s 2 remaining options are P+G and the f, b+P+G catch throw, which has been powered up and down. While the P+K follow up to the PIT leaves Akira much closer now, with PK guaranteed (and the old DblPm combo); the float after the PIT-RBC-SDE has been made lower it seems, as I can never get those old SDE-P-Shoulder… combos now (the P whiffs). Even K+G, P won’t hit, so I think we’re left with the DblPm and the Fujin combo.

This leaves Akira in a kind of interesting position: While the b, f+P+G and d/b, f+P+G are still his best bets for big damage (esp. if you b, f+P+G into a wall) they can both be escaped with the same command. The d/f+P+G, d/f+P gives okay damage, but now that it’s been weakened, the improved RBC-DblPm does more. These are his best options, yet all easily escaped by most competent players in minor counter-type situations. As of right now, the d/b+P+G and b, d+P+G are leaving Akira with 0 and 40 points guaranteed (until it’s clear who can and can’t struggle out of the Single Palm). The PIT, again here no damage is guaranteed at all. P+G anyone?

This was how I was feeling for the first couple weeks of Evo, why would AM2 decide to weaken Akira’s throws while giving almost everyone else new, useful throws? Does Lau really need those 2 new, good damage throws? But, as I played more and started to experiment some, I found that Akira can actually net much more damage than before by using his throws to set up for bigger damage moves, or more throws. While all of this was possible in ver. C, I think most Akiras would have rather gone for the guaranteed damage combos, even if they only yielded small damage (like SE-DblPm). I think AM2 wants Akira to move away from that and towards things like SE- Break Guard; SE- b, f+P+G; PIT- P+K- PK- RBC- DblPm.

In Evo, if you want to use moves like the SE, you’re gonna have to take risks like this, but I’ve been finding that more often than not they’re paying off pretty well. This is really true with the PIT, since most people can now guard the follow-ups pretty well. For example, PIT- u or d- Break Guard. Once people start doing a little crouch to avoid the BG, you can start using the RBC again, even though your oppt is capable of guarding it. Again, possible in ver. C, but Evo is forcing me to re-think the use of a lot of Akira’s throws; and it’s also making him a lot more fun and colorful. I remember seeing the Akira player Dabi do SE-K,G-SPOD. Pretty cool. If you experiment and take chances, you’ll find that pretty soon you’ll be chaining together the PIT, SE, RBC and ST together with various things to make some really long (and damaging) sequences. In a recent video Mukki did ST- SglPm- ST- SglPm- SPOD attempt (Kage guarded the P+K+G), a gutsy attempt at a gnarly combo. I’ll leave the rest to you, just don’t take all the tweaks at face value and I think you’ll start to see his new, potentially stronger throw game.

ATTACKS

Throws aside, most of Akira's real gains come from his new moves and combos. Here again I think AM2 had a specific goal in mind: get players away from endlessly relying on the DblPm, SDE and the Shoulder, and get them using the Knee and Yoho (largely ignored in VF4) along with his new moves, which take a little practice to do/use well.

Since the DblPm has been made elbow class counter-able (which includes things like Akira and Lau’s b, f+P, Pai’s K, Shun’s KK etc), and it’s range has been shortened, it’s definitely been toned down. The Shoulder’s float has been lowered to the point that on normal hit, closed stance P will never hit (it hits at counter against girls). Open stance P will still hit, but Shoulder- P- Shoulder almost never works (again counter, girls, open?). This is why some people just stick to K+G, P. If you can see stance, you can do P- DJK, P-Fujin or P-DLC in open stance, and d+P- DLC in closed for decent damage (like P- DJK), and d+P, K+G, P also works sometimes in closed. Those are really your best options as of now.

In contrast, the Knee gives a great float, and can usually be followed with P- Shoulder- DblPm. Depending on hit/weight/stance, you can substitute K+G, P for the DblPm for even better damage (about 100 pts). Since the Knee is only throw counter-able, and the shoulder is slow P counter-able, the knee has become the better choice. As an added perk, it now hits OTB, popping people up for some TR’able combos previously impossible in Ver. C. Giving an even BETTER float is the new Yoho, which has become Akira’s best float starter by a good margin. In ver. C the Yoho had the same execution as the Knee (17 frames), and it feels the same to me now, although I’m not positive (it doesn’t feel slower at all). The animation has changed to an open hand upper, and recovery has been improved slightly from slow P to middle P. Higher risk/reward than the Knee, and lower risk, much higher reward than the Shoulder. All the knee combos are available, in addition to the ability to use the DLC as a combo ender.

Yoho- P- Shoulder- DLC for about 105-110 points against girls.

So while I still use the Shoulder a lot, I’m much heavier on the Knee and am always thinking about a Yoho now, which again makes stuff more colorful and interesting for Akira.

I want to write more later, but I’m pooped now, so I’ll continue this another time.

Spotlite

 

Spectacular post spotlite.

You've made me even more excited to play Evo now. /versus/images/icons/grin.gif

 

Very nice.
All the talk about mindgames aside, akira looks worse statistically... any impressions on SDE or df+P+K? Same exe/rec? I can see from videos that DJK is still possible so that's not an issue.

Also re the DLC -> up or down to present your back... what guessing games does he have? Are you saying he gets to use all his basic TT attacks? My impression is that they generally blew... it's more useful to be able to turn away for say, lau or jacky. Akira gets a sweep and a fairly dinky overhead punch and the bodycheck. Is pretty much the goal of this to bait people into eating a back turned bodycheck for a fair chunk of life?


PS: I must reiterate... very nice.
Looking forward to anything you can dig up on pai. I think it was summers? who said that pai is considered top tier now in evo. Any idea why someone might say something like that?

 

Well, regarging the SDE: the animation has changed VERY slightly, you probably can't even see it in videos. He kind of bends his arms a little differently. There were some rumblings on Japanese BBSs about the recovery being longer, but I don't think it is. I know for a fact that it's still un-counterable (it isn't on the counter tables from Dorimaga/Arcadia), so that means if it's recovery HAS gone up, it was only by 1 frame (6 to 7, but 8 would be Throw counter-able). I don't think they'd bother changing it unless it was to change it to being counter-able somehow (like the small change they made to the Yoho's recovery).

Also, some players, including my friend Tetsuya, feel that it's execution is slower. But again, I don't feel that. The magazines have been really thorough about pointing out these kinds of tweaks, even if I can't see/feel them (the difference in damage of the RBC is not noticeable to me). Feels the same to me...

I also don't feel the d/f+P+K has changed. I think they messed with some of these things at the very first test version of Evo (the one that came out for just a week or two); but the 2nd test version that was at West Shinjuku right before the game came out was exactly the same as the final to me, so I think that stuff was all pretty short lived. He had some more new moves then, too (P+K, b, d/f+P+K etc) that were all removed.

The nice thing about the ground DLC-step is that it all comes out pretty quick, so going from d/f+K+G, f+P, u, d+K all happens smoothly, and it isn't that hard to catch people off guard. You can also TT P... Knee away from the oppt, use the bodycheck, go for a counter hit with the new d+P for a float. You're basically free to do what you want. I have some more ideas, but I want to try them out on the locals before I give it away /versus/images/icons/smile.gif.

In the end, most people probably won't use it that much, but I like it.

Also, I want to emphasize how great the Single Palm-SDE is, it's really his best new move. I'd recommend getting to grips with it's timing as the first order of bussiness for Evo Akira.

Spotlite

PS Creed: I'll post what I can remember/have learned from Andy's Pai in the Evo Pai thread. Suffice to say she's pretty strong, and has changed a lot. We figured out she has 7 SE/stumble throws now!

 

</font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />

d/b+P+G, DblPm no longer guaranteed (nothing is guaranteed after d/b+P+G):


[/ QUOTE ]

You sure about that? I've gotten whacked with it a lot. I don't know Akira's moves for shit, but I basically get a lunge, then the double-fist. I know Lau's + has been severely toned down, but I think Akira still has something guarnteed after it. I'll ask around.

 

Yeah, I'm pretty positive. The only thing that was ever guaranteed since VF3 was the Double Palm, which at version C was a 12 frame move. Now, to guard the DblPm, all you have to do is hold G. Akira's P is also 12 frames at version C, so since you can guard the DblPm, I'm pretty sure that no other attack of his could hit.

Both Arcadia and Dorimaga comment specifically on this, saying after the SE you should make a "Nitaku", or guessing game. If you're trying to duck of crouch dash away to avoid a throw or break guard, the DblPm will hit you, but if you're just holding G, no.

But of course if you're just standing there holding G...

Oh yeah, the DLC now hits a little lower, so you can do it after things like the leg KD low rising attacks (TR'able, but fun).

Spotlite

 

The fact that ST, sgpm, dblpm isn't guaranteed anymore is a huge loss to akira's throwing game. In Ver C. that's his second best throw IMO. His new SE presents an interesting new Nitaku situation though. I've seen a vid where Akira does SE -> back throw, as well as SE -> dblpm. Have you found any good followups for his ++ -> + sabaki? This seems like a fairly useful new move, considering its properties. I'm crossing my fingers, hoping that ++ -> + -> SPOD is possible.

 

Regarding the SE-Backthrow, I also get that a lot if I'm trying to do my throw really quick; I've been wondering if there's a way to do it dependably, but I doubt it. If I do my throws really quick after the SE, they come out pretty seamlessly, like the oppt doesn't even fully turn around before the next throw begins. When people get the DblPm hit, they're probably trying to crouch/CD away.

I forgot to mention, if you do SE- buffered SglPm and the oppt guards, Akira has advantage! This seems to be the little compensation we get for loosing the canned DblPm. SO force them to guard the SglPm, then beat their attacks/throws with your own attack.

Since most people can't really struggle out of the ST- SglPm yet, I'd say we can still use it at will. In fact, since most of the people I play with are always expecting the guaranteed SglPm, most of them don't struggle at all anymore! Gonna have to take advantage of that.

The d/b+P+K+G- P+K is pretty nice, seeing as how it sabakis all highs/mids aside from middle kicks/spin attacks/shoulders. After the P+K, you can go for the canned f+P, which pops them into the air pretty well, but a little far away, so DLC is probably your best bet. But like the b+P+K+G, the f+P doesn't always seem to hit, even if you get the sabaki and it comes out. I can't tell if it's whiffing or making a hit that doesn't float... Dorimaga says after the Sabaki, do a Yoho. I haven't gotten this out yet, as the P+K sabaki is tricky enough to actually get off by itself (if you've never seen the d/b+P+K+G, imagine Wolf's b, b+P+G; the range is about like that).

Since at version C the Yoho is 17 frames, and you'll need a couple frames for input (unless you can buffer it into the P+K I guess), I'd say the Sabaki lasts at least 18-19 frames. You'll need 20 frames for the SPOD. The nice thing is that it doesn't push them away as much as the b+P+K+G, so I doubt you'd have to dash.

Basically, you'll find that there are lots of ways to use the d/b+P+K+G, and your oppts will start to stop you after a while with P's, elbows etc. That's when you should go for the P+K.

Spotlite

 

Does ++ -> + execute fast enough to use as a good defensive tool, or can you see it from a mile away? If ++ operates in a similar fashion to , I'm guessing a good potential flowchart would be: SDE (blocked) -> ++ -> +. It has the potential to be an excellent anti-rising attack move if it's as good as it sounds.

 

Spotlite, thanks for all the info! I'll probably try some stuff out this friday, now that Toronto finally got EVO.

I have one question though, now that the SPoD's recovery is above knee class and the damage is 70 on normal hit is it being used a lot less(well outside of combos and mC situations)?
In my opinion risking more than -17f of recovery for only 70pts damage is not worth it when you can get more than that by using knee/yoho with much less risk.

 

I think Akira needed his throwing game dumbed down. He definitely made up for it in other parts. That knew knee he's got is a bitch. You'll get floated on a move that recovers slow (not a counter) and get a SHITLOAD of damage done.

I know he doesn't have any full crescent's, but he's got two fast and vicious moves that are non-throw counterable, and a lot of other shit. Generally, the 'stronger' characters have crappy throwing games. Look at Lei's & Shun's!

I don't play Akira, but here's my impressions.

1: He's got one of the best moves in the game. Elbow - crumble on counter, . Great round opener.
2: He sobers up Shun pretty easy, although not as well as Sara
3: He's got a decent, 20-25pt guaranteed hit when he blocks a low crescent, that puts the enemy out of harms way.
4: He can take off 90 points with a counter hit follow-up.
5: He's got the best set of reversals in the game compared to Aoi.
6: He's still got IMHO better than average throwing game w/ that throw-combo he's got.
7: I'd rank him in top tear for punishing a low whiffed punch -- maybe only inferior to Jeffry, and Jacky being the best.

 

I dunno that akira's all that cheesy /versus/images/icons/laugh.gif

.. Just to hypothetically play devil's advocate -
1. SDE is great, no denying it. It's dodgeable as an opener, but any other time when akira's coming at you with f,f,f,f,f,f it's hard to time a dodge.
2. I don't really see it as a strength... more like a fluke. Shun in version C isn't in dire need of sobering up anyway... might as well move vanessa up a notch or something if sober-ability is a criterion for effectiveness.
3. Most characters can ream a sweep. Lau, pai, kage all heelkick. Wolf FC,QCF+P or low throw. Jeffry probably is stuck with low throw. Aoi f+P,P and maybe f+P+K,P? Jacky has numerous options. You get the idea. If we're talking about the double palm, maybe praise it for its relative safeness and long range compared to some of the other moves listed above.
4. Wolf's shrm, P, b+P, pounce... jacky's knee, K,P,sweep... lau's upknife,PPPsweep... jeffry's knee, K,K,P or P -> b,df+P,P... etc. Lots of 90 pt combos from a float starter. Even aoi can compete with 85 if you can do the -> K,K (slam) -> half dash -> ground throw reliably in float combos. It's hard to time, but significantly easier (for me) than doing m-shrms into m-dbpms.
I DO think akira's f,f+K,K is a little too damaging and no-brainer and low hitting. I used to think it was stance dependent but it's not... float, P, DJK is a pretty reliable 80+ combo vs. anyone.
5. It's an arguable point... Akira's reversals are standard damage, but for high damage the b+P+K+G is very flaky, you need either the ability to spod or a little luck with the f+P canned followup, which is unreliable (barely seems to miss a vs-low-punch-butt-stumbled opponent). Wolf's low punch cut can lead to a reliable 80 points in one stance, and his high/mid kick captures are all pretty damaging, more than akira's equivalents.
6. Akira gets essentially two good throws.. .df+P+G, ground punch is high, easy damage... and b,f+P+G and db,f+P+G are about the same thing... both escaped the same way. The ST throw is also good, but 1/5 japanese players can do it I hear... that's sufficiently difficult to be called fair. Ditto pull-in throw combos, and the pull in throw is so slow it's almost not like a real throw anyway. You have to KNOW the enemy will be guarding or wall staggered to catch them with it, and a successful catch doesn't guarantee damage. I put most of the girl's throwing games over akira's /versus/images/icons/tongue.gif
7. This is sort of vague... anyone can punish a PREDICTED low punch with something nice. Hell, aoi can concievably low throw -> ground throw a whiffed one for 70ish? points. Wolf can reverse it, sarah can u+K+G it (and get a bit of a combo sometimes afterwards), shun USED to be able to u+K it, and can again in evo..... it's all relative. If akira's able to reliably get, say, 70 points of damage vs. a low punch, most of the others can count on at least 50-60, and in some situations more (wolf low punch cut combo, for example)


So anyway I take it you're happy with the changes in Evo.
Maybe your favorite character Jacky will finally get the improvements he richly deserves /versus/images/icons/crazy.gif

 

The new Standing Knee seens have very good float on MC, I just watched a viedo, Akira does a Standing Knee(MC), P, Shoulder, DblPm on Goh. Does around 85(?) damage.

 

Well, using the SPOD is still something a lot of people do, and I TRY to do. While the damage has been toned down (which I think sucks), it's still really great against people dodging to Akira's back. In situations where you thing the oppt will try to throw even though they don't have a throw counter (like after guarding the SDE), Arcadia suggests going for the Yoho, as you'll get a counter hit and can proceed with one of those new fat combos that do better damage than the SPOD.

Still, I believe if you're gonna play Akira, you should try to use the SPOD; it's his trademark.

someone else asked about using the d/b+P+K+G when Akira is in recovery. While this will work in some situations, I think if you want to do it, it'd be best to stick to doing it at times when Akira has slight recovery, like after the DE or b, f+P. Like all special dashes, it's vulnerable to throws, so if you've just had your SDE guarded, you're at -6. You've gotta wait 6 frames before the d/b+P+K+G will come out; even when it does, you'll still be in range of the oppt's throw (you'll just be beginning to back step). I've had this happen, and it sucks. I also think in a situation like that, fast attacks with good range will slap you right out of the backstep before you're out of range. The sabaki won't come out until after Akira steps back, then starts forward again (again here, imagine wolf's b, b+P+G... it takes a second to start coming forward). So after the SDE, I think you'd get nailed by moves like Kage's heelkick or Lau's d/f+P+K.

If you're expecting an elbow or low P in mild recovery, sure, go for it. But in these cases I think the P followup would be better than the sabaki. Like I said, I use the sabaki to stop people who are thrying to stop me right as I'm closing in at the end of the motion, which is long.

Whenit comes to talking about whether or not Akira's a cheesy or easy character, I'm basically over having that discussion. But, I will say just these few things:

Akira has the same huge weakness he's had since VF3: DODGE! He has no spin attacks, almost no strings (no good akiras throw out his meager strings like d/f+P+K+G, P blindly, and they don't track well anyway), no easy-knock-down low attacks to get you out of a pinch, and all of his attacks can be dodged in the same direction (except one, heh). If you just dodge to his back and jam in f+P+G, d/f+P+G, you'll be seriously hampering his game in no time.

I'd say that in VF2, you could call Akira's throw game above average. In VF3, I think it was average. In VF4, I think he's absolutely in the average, if not somewhat below average range. I'd say characters like Wolf, Jeffry, Goh, Aoi, Pai, and Vanessa have above average throw games. Lau, Jacky, Sarah, Lion, Kage, that's average to me, and I'd put Akira in here. Sure you can convert some of this throws into nice damage, but when you think about how much work it is to turn the ST into 60 points, then you see how everyone else just has to tap the lever twice and get similar damage. And like Creed pointed out, the SE and PIT followps net you 0 if you aren't smart. And don't forget that the b, f+P+G and all the PIT combos can be punished with attacks if TE'd/guarded, which is pretty uncommon in VF4. And last but not least, to have an above average throw game in VF4, think you definately need a low throw.

Spotlite

Oh yeah, in Evo you can now TR/QR many af Akira's reversals, reducing the damage to about 20 points.

 

"The new Standing Knee seens have very good float on MC, I just watched a viedo, Akira does a Standing Knee(MC), P, Shoulder, DblPm on Goh. Does around 85(?) damage. "

Or that's his old Knee? (I want play Evo /versus/images/icons/frown.gif )

 

Good points -- I think it's mainly just opinionated stuff from here on it. THing that pisses me off is that he was toned down for the 2nd beta test (Jacky was for the first) and they went against it for some reason. Might see another Ver. C. Rehash where he gets dumbed down A LOT each time.

A bit OT, but as for Shun needing to be sobered up in Ver. C? Nah -- not unless they give him at least one move that adds some drinks. ONe is slow and one is easily escapable. Sarah's is ridiculous. It's like to take off a drink. Yeah -- that's a challenge.

Seems we agree on the reversals -- I think the only one that does more damage is Vanessa, but hers are limited - no elbows, no knees. On that note, since (in Ver. C) Akira could reverse anything Aoi could besides full crescents, and did a lot more damage. Of course Aoi has some guaranteed ground throws, but they're escapable now.

Also one thing -- Aoi can't do guaranteed 70pts off of guarding a low sweep. If she gets the low throw in (which is obviously escapable) it's now like 50pts at most. gives some frame advantage, but not as good as Lau I don't think (don't quote me on that).

Most EVO changse I'm happy with all around. Some overall changes I'd like in Ver. B but likely won't get:
-Since everyone can sober up Shun more, I wish they would've given him another move that added some drinks.
-I still think the flying knees need a bit of toning down - namely Jeffry's. I've really never seen anyone play Jeffry interestingly, but I guess that's more the characters fault than the player.
-Take the stagger off of Jacky's when ducked, or at make it execute or recover slower - this also can promote some pretty boring matches. Fun to reverse though.
-Get rid of Brad
-Make the CPU fight more like a person (Sega has still done a pretty lame job of this, even though it pulls off more combos)
-Change the voices
-Give Lion his + back

 

sweeps, I tested some stuff and you're right... aoi's got few options. This is a little obscure but you can get b,f+P -> P+G hit throw after blocking a sweep. But you really must be prepared for the sweep.
Vanessa is also a little screwed too... a lot throw is 65ish after ground kick, but in defenside stance, she's otherwise stuck with a sidekick - 24 pts + stagger. Actually, wait, she can also get lightning elbow into a flop combo.
Anyway -

Shun needing drinks - what's the new reversal do, add or take away or nothing?
Flying knee - jeffry and brad are the only two with one I think, unless you wanna count akira's which is tough to do. Jeffry's is strong, but SOMEONE had to keep a strong, old fashioned knee. His other float starters appear to be ass.
Jacky's f+P stagger... never gonna happen. Jacky's the original elbow maniac. Anyway handling his elbow is no different from lau or akira or kage, right?
Brad: lol, having a tough time with brad players?
voices: yes, jesus, it's one of the only things that keeps holding the game back from having a truly badass feel. Jacky has his stone thug glasses and bandanna and poses and taunts, and this nerdy adolescent geek voice.. wtf.
lion's uf+K+G... wtf?! What's wrong with all of lion's other useful attacks. OR did you mean P+G?

 

I don't think (hit)+ is guaranteed. Could be wrong, but it's a bit slow coming out.
Vanesa's low throw isn't bad. Her is very good though, w/ the stagger. Her best move, IMHO.

Shun:
His new throw takes off 3, and it seems that he can get sobered up easy. (Wolf's Giant Swing is -3 regardless if you TR or not). They didn't give him a new move that added drinks, which I'm disappointed about.

Knee's: Akira's new knee/forearm (looks like both at the same time) is vicious, and falls under the same general class as the other knees. Akira gets MASSIVE floating power from it.

Brad: I think Brad can float too easily. I'm not particularly having trouble with him, other than I find him extremely dry. I know a few guys that use him, and they say, "yeah, he's a totally boring character, but he's strong".

Lion: Yes, I meant +. Thanks.

 

Brad n Goh..

only one word to describe them.

TSUYOI !!!!!

Esp brad's standing low sweep....

UZE!

 

Re: b,f+P - it's guaranteed according to the testing I did on the PS2, which is to record the opponent doing a sweep, then holding guard immediately for several seconds. I could test it vs. myself and double check. But sweep recovery is (justifiably) awful.