Ducking Throw/Move Punishment

How many of you here duck a throw and at least punish. Quite a few top JP players do this. I believe Yosuke does this and referenced that Adam does this as well. I've never tried to actually practice this(With VF5 i'm very lazy) but maybe I don't have the reflexes to do this.

A really awesome example is Fuudo ducking Itoshuns throw attempt and punishing the whiff with

[video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EH-pL29nn28#t=7m52s[/video]

 

I do that, I thought that's what your supposed to do isn't it?

EDIT: Forgot to mention though, since I have a 12 frame jab it's a lot more difficult then doing it with other characters; that extra frame or 2 really helps.

 

What are you at when you whiff a throw?

If people are punishing it with it's going to be at least -12 (seen 12frame jabbers do this), won't be -14 because then people would go for a mid.

Still, I'm not completely sure because I know I've seen people use shoulder rams on whiffed throws.


I'll start doing this at some point. The Guaranteed damage and advantage is better than a throw which could be broken in a lot of cases.

 

What often happens to me, is that I try to punish the throw when I see it... and then get a throwclash. This has caused me to wait a bit with my punishment, which causes me to miss the punishment window online. Because of this I usually just throw.

Maybe it's best to use a launching/non-clashing attack? Most characters won't have this, but if your character does, this is probably the smartest choice.

 

I have practised this and the best punish that I can reliably do to whiffpunish throws OFFLINE (I check first that the throw whiffs and then react with the punish) is 14f. This means Akiras standing palm combo.

Feck has been on about punishing whiffed throw with SPoD but I have said it then and I will say it again: its possible if you bait and ignore the hitchecking. Ie. You crouchdash to make the throw whiff and then SPoD, and they wont be able to block it, but you wont have time to see whether or not the throw actually whiffs or if there even was a throwattempt. This would require like 1-2 frame reflexes.

So the essence of the problem is this: The window on punishing whiffedthrows is quite large, around 30 frames I think, but normal peoples reaction time is around 15 frames.

ps. Comparison: Lions is 15f. If Akira would have a different 15f punisher I might try it.

 

I'm not sure about the mid part - IIRC "standard" 14f elbow~kicks won't combo on recovery counter hit. Seeing that landing a 17-ish mid launcher requires top-notch reflexes i can definetly understand why it's preferable to try 14f high attacks that launch/combo on recovery hit.

Cue inevitable vanessa plug: fuzzy guard under a throw > OS pile bunker works and doesn't require crazy inputting skills. I mean even I am able to do it - only in training mode of course but it's there. Would love to see a vanessa player display that in a real match. DS seems to get the short end of the stick as usual since, after ducking a throw, the AI manages to block both her 17f combo starters. Of course that might be due to my slow execution skills, somebody else might want to test this but, as Manji pointed out, executing them would probably leave no room for hitchecking.

 

Errrr you mean they usually combo on normal hit?

 

On the conrary, as far as i remember they tend to combo on (major) counter hit only. Ducking a throw and then attacking will count as recovery CH, so hitting f+p,k will not combo. And since other mids are slower so that's why i'm contesting seidon's "go for mid" alternative.

 

err name some

 

(after a short discussion on the shoutbox)

It appears i'm sorely mistaken, please disregard my past 2 posts.

 

Jacky's combos on normal hit but only on fastest input.

 

I'm still not sure about this, from messing about with it in dojo it really does seem possible just damn difficult. When I try it out, I whiff the throw and block the mid every time it's just hard to input SPoD quick enough but I do land it occasionally.

Definitely a lot easier to punish with .

 

SPoD is a 20 frame move.. I dont know if its possible to do a 'option select' input timing to it though, delay pressing P+K+G just so much that if you blocked the elbow, SPoD wont come out..

 

This is possible.

Not entirely true, there is a small window of delayability to make it hit confirmable.


Personally I consider punishing ducked throws with as staple, doing 14f moves is possible to do consistent as well depending on the input of the move. 16-17f moves is where it gets doable but very tight, and most of the high damage options here have severe consequences if you fail your punishment. I'm basing this of course on if you're going to duck a throw, react to the throw whiff and then punish, all in a match situation and not practice mode.

 

Could be what's going on, I remember kod making a thread about fuzzy option select a while ago but can't seem to find it.

 

Yeah that's the thread I was thinking of, was only on page 2 as well

 

sharp pencil
33g = crouch guard
33p = yoho

 

i do this all the time

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