Discussion on Stagger Recovery

Discussion on Stagger Recovery

Was doing some research on 'stagger recovery' for VF5 system. From my basic understanding of Japanese, my un-qualified translation as follow /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif

http://www.geocities.co.jp/Playtown-Queen/5705/bogyo.html

"レバー三回転、ボタンはＧを押したままＰ，Ｋ連打。"
"Rotate the joystick for three (3) rounds, hold the G-button and tap-continuously P and K buttons"

Also, from another website

http://blog.livedoor.jp/acebreaker/archives/2007-10.html

"ちなみによろけ回復無しの場合、普通のよろけは発生18F以上の技はガード可能だけど、側面よろけだと発生22Fの技でもガード不可能。"
"In non-struggle scenario, usually attack above 18 frames can be guarded. At side-position, attack with 22 frames cannot be guarded"

Now, here is my question
(1) Is this technically discussed and verify-able?
(2) I read somewhere in discussion, that the struggle won't register in the system if the player do it during the "green-color" struggle stick animation. True?

 

Stagger recovery is based on unique input directions. That is, rotating the stick hits all 8 directions, which is very good... but going just left and right is just two directions, so no matter how fast you do it, you aren't going to recover. I've been told you only need 3-4 seperate direction in most cases, however note the staggers with both red and green icons. If you hit directions during the wrong color, you get penalized, and will need more total direction inputs once the good color appears. You want to hold guard since that will cause you to actually guard once you recover, otherwise you'll still get hit. I don't actually know whether hitting P and K make any difference.

As far as frame data... staggers don't have a consistent number of frames in this game, it varies depending on which move caused the stagger. There's lots of info on what is guaranteed if stagger recovery is missed, and what to do if your opponent succeeds in recovering, but it's all move specific. That is, people rarely discuss exact frame duration of a stagger... just how to follow one up correctly.

As for the 18f vs. 22f thing... that's a general system penalty on side-turned. It takes 4 frames for a side-turned character to face their opponent before they can block, and it takes 6 frames for a back-turned character to turn and face their opponent before they're allowed to block.

 

This is from the Wiki. I assumed from this that you could only stagger when the indicator turns red.

Recommended method of struggling is a bit surprising. Back and forth motions are doable, but 360 motions are best? Total opposite from DOA with the same effect, cool.

It would be nice to know a way to find out which attacks can be guaranteed from staggers/stumbles regardless of struggling speed of the opponent.

 

I fought is exactly the same like in DOA4 (slow escape). Silly me /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif

How do you recover from staggers?

 

hmmm good info on staggers i did not know any of that

 

If they struggle fast enough they can recover before you and gain advantage depending on the move. El Blaze's 1K+G is an example, if they struggle fast enough, they will recover BEFORE you, even though you staggered them.

 

Akai's probably right about side-turned, I knew back turned frames, but didn't look up side-turned, assumed 4 just from reading the OP.

For some basic tricks... most people recover into standing guard, if they manage to recover from stagger. So, throw or low attack is usually what you want to think about. If they don't recover from stagger, the "reeling back" animation should cause throws to whiff, and lows tend to do a lot less damage than the launchers that are guaranteed if they don't recover, so like everything else, you gotta yomi well.

 

In the PS3 and 360 VF5 instructions (PAL) it says to recover from staggers:
"alternate the directional buttons /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif quickly to recover."

Why does it say only backwards and forwards? Is this correct? If so, the people who rotate the stick 360 degrees are wrong. And if it's wrong, why would the instructions specify backwards and forwards ONLY? Weird...

 

For the record, what I said about rotating the stick and unique directions, I learned from reading other threads on this site. So, I'm repeating information that I'm pretty sure is true, but I can't say it's 100% true, as I haven't fully tested it myself. That said, having applied the rotation motion myself in matches, I tend to personally have more success doing that than when I used to do things like just left and right... (I suck at stagger recoveries;.

Also, having some knowledge of the way instruction manuals are produced, it would not surprise me in the least if the instruction manual was wrong, especially when it's not in the native language of the developers. Of course, backwards and forwards will still work if you go fast enough in this game, and it's a lot simpler to explain in a short phrase than fully going into the technical specifics of staggers. It's possible they just were putting something down in writing for noobs, and figured we would find the most effecient methods of recovery by ourselves, regardless.

 

nah, rotating the stick is definitely quicker. I always hold /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif as I do it, i'm not sure if that helps.

Didn't it show you this in VF4 EVO tutorial? I've always rotated the stick to struggle out of staggers but I don't remember where I learned that.

 

Hi Everybody,

Thanks for all the replies. Actually, I would like to find out more on tactical aspect on the advantages of stagger situation.

For example, on elbow stagger for Lion, what is the possible options and what is the chances of landing it
(1) 33P+K, or
(2) 1K
(3) Throw
(4) etc?

Thanks for all the comments and feedback.

Sg-Lion /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif

 

Thanks for the information. However the number 1 technique seems to be favoured by Top Japanese players seem to use the most. People should have a look at the replays on the VF5 disc. It's a great tool for learning. I watched a specific match between Akira vs Eileen. Eileen connects with her shoulder stagger throw, the akira player waits for the stagger icon to turn red. Spins the stick in a circle 2 or 3 times, while holding guard and pushing /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif . Blocks her low sweep follow up?(Not sure if its a seperate move). However use the method which is best for you.

I've seen other players struggle while inputting the commands /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/ub.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/u.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/uf.gif.

 

the low sweep is a seperate move.

someone told me struggling with /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/ub.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/u.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/uf.gif is done to prevent accidental crouching and getting hit by a mid.

 

I find it very misleading that the green joystic is for staggers that are impossible to struggle out of and that the red one is for struggable staggers. God, what's wrong with the Japanese at times...

Can anyone confirm that trying to struggle when the joystick icon is green is actually counterproductive?

 

Damn, that sounds perfect for me lol. Cause I always crouch when I roll the 360s.

And I'm curious about what Franz said too. Is struggling during the green portion detrimental in anyway, or just 'useless'?

 

so you can't actually struggle while it's green? You have to wait for it to go red?

 

When I stagger someone, and hit him/her I get higher lancher. Does any hit during a stagger CH?