Dealing with 2P

I'm having trouble dealing with 2P effectively in FS. Not sure why. It seems that just about all of Sarah's techniques get crushed by a 2P spammer.

Are there any moves of hers, outside of flamengo stance, that is a reliable counter to 2P?

 

If you block a 2P and do elbow, you'll crush the next 2P. Just react quickly to your advantage in order to punish it.

 

Most of Sarah's mid pokes will beat out a 2P. If you can react, you'll stuff their 2Ps easily. The 6P is really good against the 2P however. But you do have quite a few options to stop the 2P spams. Also going into free training have the CPU block and counter attack with 2P and figure out what stuffs it, you'll be pleasantly surprised how easy it is to stop it.

 

I'm having trouble too, but I'm getting better at dealing with 2P so I'll share what I learn :

First of all I think it's important to know that 2P on block is -5.
Trough my little experience of the game and the character I learn that +5 for Sarah is HUGE ! Because it means free 4K for you. 2P is i12 and 4K i17-5 = i12. And in VF mid will ALWAYS beat 2P if they're the same speed.

You'll often fight a dude who love spamming two or three 2P, block the first one and 4K the second one. Since 2P makes you crouch, it'll stagger the opponent giving you a free FLA 6K+G and combo. That's a very high price to pay for a 2P if you ask me.

You can also 6P between the two 2P to get MC and +7 advantage. At +7 you're pretty much the BAWSS but I'd use that only if you're not comfortable with 4K (timing wise it's easier to 6P).

Now that we got 2P on block -> 2P or everything, out of the way, you'll need to deal with those dudes who just 2P as a panic button once in a while.

Most of the time, when I don't really know if a block string is enough - frame to 4K, I often try with 6P. It's one of Sarah best move after all (imho).

After the opponent attacks.

- He was at advantage : You give him a MC, but now know he was at some kind of advantage. Fair trade if you ask me.

- He was safe but at disadvantage
1. He tries to attack anyway : You got a nice MC so you're at +7. And like we already established earlier : +7 = Sarah is DA BAWSS. I strongly suggest trying to apply pressure with a Fla starter like 4K instead of just doing the follow up K btw.
2. He block : You're at -5. You're safe but in no position to attack with anything. You can still DM (= Defensive Move, or side step) tho, I'll encourage it. (correct me if I'm wrong here, might be a stupid idea after all, still kinda new to the game). If you successfuly evade an attack and attack on the side, you become SUPER BAWSS SARAH since you can wreak havoc on the guy with stupid advantage.

- He was unsafe : If he tries to attack anyway = MC and +7 transformation to BAWSS MODE.
If not : you punish. Since 6P is at 0 on normal hit, you better do the follow up attack. Suggestion : Do 6P,4K instead of 6P,K. You lose little damage (~2 damage) but you go into FLA with +3 advantage and can apply pressure.


Finally in FLA you have P+K to deal with 2P. It's a sabaki that'll give you so much advantage you got pretty much any move guaranteed after. Makes them think twice ! If they didn't 2P and freeze watching FLA P+K try to FLA K or FLA 3K to stuff their late retaliation.

Don't forget that you can do some move from far away and hit tip range to get max advantage. That strange thing happen with 4K for example :
- 4K close range : + 4 on block. On hit +6. On counter +10.
- 4K tip range : +7 on block. On hit +9. On counter +12 !!
Best part is, you'll be in range to any FLA follow up you want after tip range 4K.
I know I'm kinda intense on 4K but this move is really top 3 favorite in my book !

Works for other moves too, 1K+G,K become 0 on block for example. Which is pretty neat ! Icing on the cake, 2P from the opponent will wiff and you got free punish !

To finish this long post, an odd thing. When you 8K on block (+2) and then 3K a liiiiiiittle bit after, the opponent 2P get stuffed on mC. Dunno why but hey, won't complain ! (Tested on Jean/Jacky)

That's all I have for now, hope it helped ! Sorry if butchered the english language on some occasions. I'm french so not use to speak english !

 

Wow, thanks for all the advice peeps. I went into free training mode and set the dummy to 2P counter. Learned alot.

Now I have to figure out how to do all this with the lag present online (I don't have the best connection).

Again, thanks for the tips!

 

You should also remember that when you are playing sarah you need to use flamingo to throw off their 2p shananigans.

 

A lot of the characters can destroy a 2p user so long as you know its coming. A few examples are El Blaze 8P+K, Kage 9K+G, Wolf 9P+K, Akiras 4P+K+G 6P

I`ve not used Sarah much in FS but in vanilla 6K+G K was good.

 

Why do you say this? There are lots of ways to deal with 2p in normal stance. For instance if you're at small advantage (at least +2) 6p (obviously) or 9k+gk, 8k works at small disadvantage even and 8k+g works at large disadvantage and nets you a combo.

Also a nice trick that still works in FS is to backdash buffer a 4k (4464+k). 4k is +4 on block but in this situation it connects on a later hit frame and you can do for instance fl 2k (even though it's 17 frames) into hit throw if your opponent tries to 2p.

 

I tried my way around with this in dojo. When do you apply 4464k buffer? Is it to make the move be more deceptive or after certain dis/advantage? I'm not sure I understand the benefits about getting the later hit frames? Do the backdash cancel give you certain evasion? Also the spacing seems weird, the 4K puts some distance between me and the opponent so I'm not sure why he would 2P after. I can still flamingo 2K -> hit throw him though so I'm not sure if my spacing is wrong. Do you recognize this or am I just completely lost? Sorry if I missed something obvious. I'm just trying to understand.

 

The reason to do the backdash buffer is to increase your advantage basically. 4k is +4 on guard, so if I simply do it from point blank range and my opponent guard and 2p he would beat my 2k since it's 17 frames in execution. If I backdash buffer it the move will connect on a later active frame and my advantage will be larger. In the FS dojo this is very easy to see with the frame data display. I typically get 6 or 7 frames of advantage instead of 4 and my 2k will counter hit him instead. I'm still in range for his 2p to connect though (if I simply backdash buffer 4k and wait, his 2p will connect). I'd say this is useful both from adv/disadv, the backdash gives certain evasion, but I guess it's also riskier in FS so I'm not sure yet.

The fl 2k hit throw was just an example though, fl 3k will also work in this situation and leads to better damage.

 

Yeah, I don't know if I should be incorporating flamingo into my game yet. The only thing I've ever successfully pulled of was a 5P or 5K in that stance, normally I just get thrown or jabbed out of it. I'm finding Sarah's stances really hard to use effectively.

 

One of the best ways to deal with 2P I've found is the following:

P -> Tap G To Clear Buffer -> 8K (or really any other attack that beats 2P)

8K is only beaten by side-step or quick high-attacks, and if they standing block you are in FL with Advantage. However, if they go for 2P you get a stagger state that you can do the following:

After 8K (opponent in stagger from Counter hit) K+G,K -> 1K+G,K -> FL 6K,K (94) or FL 8K (91)

You need to be a little crisp to keep them in the air or they can Quick Getup out of the last part of the FL 6K,K finisher. If they only crouch block instead of 2P, they can mash out of the recover but it is really hard (Combo didn't work when stagger recover was on fastest and normal hit but if Counter Hit, no way to recover in time). My roommate tried to mash out of normal hit and was only successful 3/20 times when a human tried to mash out of it.

Tested on Wolf So I'm assuming you can do even more against other opponents. Also tested with Stagger recover at fastest.

 

Thanks for the advice.

So far I'm having trouble executing any of the things in this thread. If the opponent does any low attack which puts them at a great disadvantage (low sweep for example) I can easily punish and have my way with them.

But, I'm still not reacting fast enough to 2P spam. I guess I need to practice more, but I also can't help but feel that a few frames of lag also aren't helping.

So for now I side step and punish accordingly if I can.

Will continue to work on this.

 

What specifically is happening? Are they literally just sitting there hit 2P or are they just going straight to 2P when you go through one of your chains?

Each situation calls for a different thing really:

1) If you notice someone high guarding initially and then going to 2P every time, that's when something like P --> G Cancel --> 8K is going to work best.

2) If they just low guard all the time just use mid-attacks until they stop. I have no problem doing quadruple 66K if someone just always mashes attack on get up and won't respect the oki. You should have the same mentality, if they are going to give you mid-attacks, take 'em. No point in trying to outsmart a single response to all problems. You'll just hurt yourself in the end

3) If they do it in specific situations, keep them in mind. I get FL P+K Sabaki all the time because people usually will throw out a 2P to try and stop the pressure FL can bring when I enter into it.

4) Remember, 2P is -5 on block standing or crouching but it's near impossible to react quickly enough to a single 2P block to do something with it unless you are looking for it. My best advice would be to either back away or get used to going for superior position once you block a 2P unless you have a trap in mind.

5) 8K+G and 8K both beat lows since they are jump attacks so don't be afraid to use them as well

One thing to also consider is if they are just mashing it aimlessly, then they will probably throw out 2-3 whiffs in a 2P session. Sometimes I'll just hit P,P and back dash then go 1K to blow up their 2P attempts. You'd be surprised how many people (even good players) it messes with because nobody expects you to back dash when you have advantage.

Remember, not every attack has to be designed to hit the opponent nor do you have to finish every chain. Hell, half of the time I know someone is going to block, but I want to see how they react so I just do a quick P or K (even on hit) and then back out. If they instinctively go to 2P, that's when I know they have a tick I can take advantage of.

 

Beating is easy, just ensure that you have an advantage and do a midmove. Knowing your advantages and disadvantages is important.

Its not trivial to stop lowpunch mash since its quite fast and the game is fastpaced, but its what you need to do.

You can also try backdash into a midlauncher if you can predict them low punches.

What you cannot do however, is evade a lowpunch and succesfully punish it. Its safe when evaded.

 

Again, I'm quite sure that everything you guys are telling me will work. But I think the biggest problem is my reaction time is just not there to respond correctly to a 2P spammer. I'll eat the first two 2Ps, then react, usually with a sidestep.

I'm learning slowly that sidestepping a 2P is a terrible idea.

A usual event for me is opponent finishes his string, I attempt to do something to get myself into flamingo (4K or 8K, sometimes 1K+GK), but that move is interrupted by the opponents 2P. An immediate second 2P, my reaction is to either backdash, sidestep, or guard.

Guarding = me getting thrown.
Sidestepping = me getting launched.
Back dash = I have some room, feel confident, attempt to attack, get crushed somehow, combo.

That's not always, but typical.

Again, I'm sure my biggest issue is my reaction time

Practice, practice, practice...

 

Part of dealing with 2p effectively is really in the yomi game; if you call an opponent's 2p Sarah has an excellent arsenal of punishers. Some of these even work at severe disadvantage, so if your opponent falls back on 2p at any opportunity or tends to anticipate high followups with 2p (say after 6p they duck anticipating the p or 3k followup and 2p, for example).

8k, as mentioned, is great, sets up i'm pretty sure guaranteed FL6k+g into whatever. I'm not sure how disadvantaged you can be before it stops working, certainly works from 2+ off of p as mentioned and is a very strong option there. advantage on block of course, but steppable and slowish.

8k+g is her round kick, hits mid, will crush 2p very, very late into disadvantage (off elbow -5 for sure) and is half circular so will catch sidesteps. -6 on block so fairly safe. however, 20 frames, so really this is almost entirely reserved for killing 2p in my game.

9k+g into whatever is interesting if you're at advantage and you expect 2p to come out (it's their panic button, which is not uncommon). at advantage it definitely crushes 2p and the k followup should combo. I don't think it's got much ability out of disadvantage though. Highly situational, but far better damage than 8k+g. So far I can't find anything guaranteed off that even on CH. 8k is probably the better option though.

To summarize: if you've got advantage (hit/block p, hit elbow, counters) i think 8k is the best way to go if you expect 2p given the rewards. Alternatively, if you're at disadvantage/are in the middle of a string with a high ender or if you expect a step, 8k+g is an excellent option but much less damaging.

 

Those moves in the first paragraph are awesome, but if you do 4K like you said, and punish a 2P with her FL 3K, that is a huge combo you can get off of their desire to spam 2P. End rounds quick especially if they aren't smart enough to sidestep.

 

There might be a good setup for this off of 6k+g as well to bait the 2p into 8k/4k. Since it leaves you at up to 0 if you space it right but at a good distance, you may be able to bait out a lot of bad counters. I know for certain 2p will whiff most of the time at the right range, so there you go. Haven't tried this against good competition, but I've been considering the possibilities.

 

In VF4 Evo, if people are spamming , do Sarah's move. It will deflect the opponents low punch, and then it will hit him. Putting Sarah in flamingo stance.