BOYCOTT: don't support invite-only bullshit in NYC!

Drama is in the air boys and girls. Where's it coming from? Well, where else... NY!@ I'm embarrassed to be a part of it, but I can't help getting angry and feel something should be done with them. Every time they piss someone off, I think "man this is the stupidest shit EVER". I'm always wrong though, they can manage to come up with something even stupider.

By now you want to know my actual issue, here it is -

KYASAO and (reputedly) OHSU are coming to new york to play VF. This isn't a business trip, this is a gathering between japanese and american VFers. This isn't news, it's been known among several people for a long time. So where was the announcement?

There isn't any. New York has decided this is going to be invite only. They don't want scrubs wasting kyasao's time. They don't want just any random guy to have the opportunity to play some of the best VF players in the world, even if they could drive there in a day or two.

Well, you might say - "what's so bad about that? There are limited setups and space, and kyasao should have good comp for the time and money he spent to come to the USA"

... here's the catch, new york has poured some of andy's seemingly limitless money into renting a LOFT, with several bigscreen setups and some smaller TVs with PS2s. Obviously setups isn't going to be an issue with so many people out there owning TVs and PS2s. Room isn't going to be an issue if the space costs ~200 bucks a night to rent (which I'm told it does).

So new york has bought kyasao a place to sleep. Why isn't anyone inviting him to stay with them? How about andy's posh pad where there are tons of creature comforts for kyasao? The answer is simple. By buying this loft new york is able to control where kyasao plays. He's not going to be at chinatown fair playing on those hot versus city cabs new york is always bragging on. He's in the loft, which is NOT open to the public, and people who want to play are expected to pay 20 dollars to make up the cost of renting the space. For their money they get the key to come play kyasao. It's like pay per view, but it's a serious scam - it only takes five guys to make up 100 bucks a night. I can think of five guys just in MY area who would want to go. New york is going to make a killing on this if they actually stick to it. Multiply at least 30 guys by 20 bucks.

Think money has nothng to do with all of this?

[1:17am] <KreeD0> nobody's going to come. Someone already (not rich, not me, not a florida guy) has brought up organized boycotts.
[1:17am]« CNYC » hehe
[1:17am] <KreeD0> you can rot and play the same four guys.
[1:18am]« CNYC » you and I both know thats not true
[1:18am]« CNYC » as long as adam and I hold the wallets
[1:18am]« CNYC » its an unfortunate fact fl has to accept

The bottom line is that new york has essentially BOUGHT kyasao and is now charging people to play him. We all know that for new york's friends (i.e. the same four or five schmucks who play in NY every day), there will be no charge. For people new york is neutral towards... they'll charge the sumeragis and the shous and the spotlites out there, because they don't really care about anyone else and will cheerfully take your cash even when it's clear they don't need it. As for new york's "enemies"... they can't play for any amount of money because they aren't invited.

So yeah, what's wrong with the fact that new york has intentionally witheld invitations to SEVERAL top players in the US, probably the best this continent has to offer? It's their party, why should they invite players who can clown them in front of kyasao? If they feel threatened by these players then they should feel free to use past drama as an excuse to dick with the invitations. Even though I understand that part of it, what I don't get is why ALL of florida was left out? Kyasao, who knows blondie and imf from having met them in korea, won't get to play top players due to RETARDED VF DRAMA AND POLITICS. Here we have arguably the best Kage player in japan, and he won't play the best Kage in the USA because various new york people got together and decided "man, it's time to get our drama on. Let's blow some money and piss off some people and really stick it to florida by holding an invite only tournament!"

Of course some apologist will want to say "they don't do invite only with the sole intention of pissing people off. It's supposed to be kept quiet."

...that's bullshit. Invite only has never been kept quiet, and nobody outside of new york has even had the nerve to try it. You can fucking well bet if kyasao went to LA, guys like spot would be thrilled to have the chance to announce it on the board and coax people into coming. It's also safe to say that kyasao wouldn't be sleeping in a loft while 30 guys around him are playing on PS2s, he'd be hosted in someone's house and playing at public arcade for at least some of his stay. Ten guys would jump at the chance to host him.

At this point someone well say "well I know what this is really about, it's about sal and his undying hatred for blonde 1. He said he can't be in the same room as blondie or he'll beat the shit out of him". Yeah, so to some extent, that's what this is about. Because sal is being his usual childish self, five guys can't go to play kyasao. "But wait, why not invite the guys sal's cool with?"

That makes too much SENSE for the new york crew. First it's blondie who's not invited, but imf maybe could go. Then it's determined that imf can't go (at least, until he does a little asskissing, check this log:

[1:09am]« CNYC » yet the supposedly best team cant apologize to sal via phone at all
...
[1:10am] <KreeD0> what do they have to apologize for? Sal's an ass. Consistently. You honestly expect anyone to call him up and suck his dick?
[1:10am]« CNYC » I apologized to spotlite in person
[1:10am]« CNYC » u got no idea
[1:10am] <KreeD0> in the past when blondie did the big thing and apologized
[1:10am] <KreeD0> sal said "shove it"
[1:10am]« CNYC » dude
[1:10am] <KreeD0> so why the fuck would they make that mistake twice?
[1:10am]« CNYC » if they want to come bad enough
[1:10am]« CNYC » yes they should


But wait, what about others? Well first it was "oh sure, we're cool with guys like dre and stomp"... how about JediFei, one of the florida players who is RARELY involved in any drama and is generally a nice guy? Today he came on and put NYC to the test. He assumed he's in the same boat as stomp etc... he's been invited to the other new york gatherings without any problems. He learns from imf about this tournament, and he's aware of the fact that imf and blondie weren't invited. So he told new york he's BSed his boss to get time off works, spent 500 bucks on a plane ticket, reserved a hotel room... you'd think he'd be good to go, right?


[12:55am]« CNYC » nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
[12:55am]« CNYC » tell him to refund
[12:55am]« CNYC » im serious
[12:55am]« CNYC » sal is gonna have a big problem

Thankfully all the plane ticket stuff was just bullshit to make new york nervous. You gotta love pablo's sense of humor. Still! New york was prepared to fuck this guy out of FIVE HUNDRED BUCKS just to accomodate sal's psychosis. Jedi's not going because he's not on the sal "happy list"... basically, a fucking retard with a chip on his shoulder is the ultimate decider of who gets to play the best VF players from japan while they're here. The once-in-a-lifetime chance to play japanese players without blowing 3 grand to go to japan has come up, and you will get to play him only if it makes this guy happy:

yes yes, keep at it. the more you insult me the worst you gonna get it. you are getting sooooo close to getting killed in real life.

dont fuck with me. you've been warned. and call the police like the little pussy that u are. i bet thas what u gonna do. pussy

Craptastic! All this bad blood because one guy keeps voluntarily boycotting tournaments whenever florida shows up at them. So new york wants sal to be at this one, and therefore a bunch of other people can't be. The world revolves around Sal. That's just fucktacular. Let's give the keys to kyasao's VF pleasure palace to a childish jackass. This is the same guy who went out of VFDC in a great big ball of drama queenery. Can someone please explain to new york that if their buddy is being an ass, they need to call him out on that shit? And that they shouldn't accomodate or encourage it?

Another pre-emptive strike for apologists: If you are thinking: "This is just rivalry, isn't florida doing the same thing to new york as they're doing to them? We should leave this between those two groups to work it out"

The answer is NO, they aren't the same thing by a longshot. When sal first let it be known that he was gonna boycott tournaments because his panties are in a bunch... blondie tried to be big about it and apologize. Sal told him to fuck himself. Florida has gone out of their way to offer new york invites to florida super battle, even while new york is pulling this lame shit by leaving them out of a chance to play 10 japanese players. There's a difference between these crews.

----
So anyway, as usual invite-only has failed to be kept secret and has inevitably pissed off people that weren't invited. This time it's pissed off people who WERE invited.

So I'm posting this even though I fear the draw of kyasao will be too much for people to resist. Andy thinks the new york haters are just a few irc guys, not the majority of the vets out there or anything. I think he's wrong. Those of you with the balls, go ahead and speak out and let him know. Don't worry about new york rescinding your invitation. Fuck it. The more you try to protect your invitation by coddling assholes like crewnyc, sal, and yes... even adam... then more you are encouraging them to do invite only tournaments in the future.

Even if you aren't on anyone's shit list, you can at least offer a neutral opinion on why invite only tournaments are bad for the scene. If the guys from new york are halfway decent, they won't rescind your precious invite over it. Personally, I don't think they're halfway decent, as far as human beings go. Maybe as VF players. But between mister violent nutcase, king troll, and the backstabber... I can't think of any reason aside from MONEY why anyone should go to see these dudes. They're arrogant, they're drama queens, and they manage to draw people by pouring cash into a nice setup or nice cab. When I came to the last new york gathering (and it's safe to say it was the LAST one for me)... I came because I wanted to hook up again with the nice guys from canada and see whether florida was any good. I didn't care about how good andy or adam or hiro think they are, and I still don't. They always try to keep everyone updated on their 'skills' anyway.

I enjoyed my time there, and I think it's fair to say that if andy miraculously had grown up at some point after the gathering (or else drove his car off a cliff)... this post would never have happened. But regardless of whether it's andy, adam, sal, etc... what does new york have that you can't find in florida? One or two days out of the year, the answer is "kyasao"... but if you couldn't afford to see a tetsujin on the west coast at evo2k3, why spend an extra 20 bucks to put up with assholes... when you could hit up florida super battle and possibly play shinz? You'll get the same opportunity to get crushed by an inhumanly good player, but the nice part is that if you somehow do well at FSB, nobody's going to post a week later and delegitimize your wins by saying "tournaments mean nothing, you weren't good enough at casual gathering play". You can play in a relaxed drama free environment, and you aren't going to be limited to playing people the FLA crew "thinks" are good. IMF, supergolden, namflow, they were all unknown a while ago. Imagine if they never got to win tournaments because they weren't invited?

I hope the next generation of unknowns shows up at FSB and kicks some ass.

As for those of you who AREN'T unknown... chime in and show your support and boycott this upcoming NYC secret gathering.

PS to sal:
Don't write this off as a ton of wasted writing over three guys. I'm writing because of the invitations themselves, not just the three guys -without- them. This post couldn't have happened without you, and that's a shame. If andy ever goes broke and can't buy competition anymore, I hope you don't have any regrets when you're bored playing the same four guys over and over.

 

whoa, shit..
never realized that the politic craptacular things are happening in VF world too

 

/versus/images/graemlins/shocked.gif

 

while I don't want to get involved in this on any particular side, I will say this (and most of it I've already said to Adam and Andy, IMF etc directly):

I think invite-only events tend to do more harm than good. Why? See Above. I can understand the idea of an invite based tourney, that people had to qualify for, but it seems the qualifier for this event is (being off) someone's shit list.

With the bridge between Japan and the US growing, think it makes a bad showing for anyone to be omitted from an event like this, especially since it's being covered by foreign press as a big US VF event. I've said it before, I'll say it again: the one impression I got from Japanese organizers and players at Evo2003 was that if they're gonna come here, they want to come to events where EVERYONE will be there.

I think on both sides, NY and FLA need to work together to end the drama. Since I don't know who's done what, I'll leave it at that.

On NY's side: Guys, if I were you, I'd open the event to everyone, ASAP. Just throw the door open, and watch all the good vibes and respect you'll get. People will have so much fun, and your event will loose the dark cloud that's hanging over it currently. It'll be like a giant breath of fresh air, and the event will be like a celebration, and end to all the BS. I think it'd really feel good to let all this go, shake hands, and start over. The LAST impression you want to give the Japanese is that the US VF scene can't get past it's own BS drama enough to just enjoy getting together and hosting some visitors from Japan (I think players from other game's US scenes are starting to get that impression already) .

Trust me, if there's no change, people in Japan WILL find out about all the drama, and it'll be a BIG turn-off.

do the right thing, everyone. I think you'll be suprised at how quickly the clouds roll back.

Bryan

 

While I am new to the VF community and don't have much to offer, I have been involved in running Evo and bringing the Japanese players over here a few times, as well has having the opportunity of visiting Japan and being in Super Battle Opera (that is the name everyone from the capcom world calls it, not sure if you guys refer to it as that or Tougeki...shrug). This year we had a small fiasco where the Super Turbo finals were Japan vs. Japan (Daigo vs. Nuki to be exact) and in trying to get the finals expedited along as fast as possible, we only moved one Japanese cabinet up to the front in use for head to head - US vs. Japan.

Once we reached the finals, instead of wasting more time trying to move the other Japanese cabinet over and hooking it up, which no matter what seems to always take more time than we plan for, we were told that it was fine for Daigo and Nuki to play on the same cabinet. Now, anyone who has played on a Japanese cabinet will tell you that it sucks for 2 people to both be playing on the same cabinet, and I'm sure those 2 hated it also.

After the finals, more than one Japanese player came over and apologized to us for the poor showing of Daigo in ST. They realized that a lot of people came just to see Daigo and they felt that due to the circumstances, Daigo had not performed as well as he could have. This had nothing to do Daigo owning up more Americans or anything like that, they just felt that he wasn't playing at his full potential and they wanted to apologize for that. Those crazy Japanese.

Take what you want from that story, but also keep in mind that the Japanese that are coming over, have probably never been to America or only have maybe once or twice. This year for Evo, all the japanese wanted to shoot guns, go to strip clubs, go to malls, go to all the arcades, etc. When I went to Japan, I wanted to visit Sportsland, Beat Tribe, More, etc but I also wanted to see as much as I could of the country while I was there.

 

When I found out about this a few days ago, I wasn't surprised, just dissapointed. It's sad when politics starts affecting decisions like this. It would've been nice to meet the other NYC guys that don't have drama going on. Oh well, there's always FSB.

Good thing I haven't bought a fuckin' plane ticket yet! /versus/images/graemlins/wink.gif

 

Hmm...a lot of venom/garbage to sift through, but I’ll just pick stuff out that is just blatantly wrong - nice try though. People should know both sides of the story...

[ QUOTE ]
KYASAO and (reputedly) OHSU are coming to new york to play VF...

[/ QUOTE ]

Its Kyasao and Shu (not Ohsu) confirmed so far, and a couple others that are still maybe.

[ QUOTE ]
So new york has bought kyasao a place to sleep. Why isn't anyone inviting him to stay with them? How about andy's posh pad where there are tons of creature comforts for kyasao? The answer is simple. By buying this loft new york is able to control where kyasao plays. He's not going to be at Chinatown fair playing on those hot versus city cabs new york is always bragging on. He's in the loft, which is NOT open to the public, and people who want to play are expected to pay 20 dollars to make up the cost of renting the space. For their money they get the key to come play kyasao. It's like pay per view, but it's a serious scam - it only takes five guys to make up 100 bucks a night. I can think of five guys just in MY area who would want to go. New York is going to make a killing on this if they actually stick to it. Multiply at least 30 guys by 20 bucks.

[/ QUOTE ]

See..this is what i have a problem with. Okay, I have always favored gatherings to tourneys as i feel gathering style play offers players the most play time and therefore chances to truly improve ones game. To ensure this, we HAD to rent out a space that allowed everyone to play 24/7 to their hearts content. This loft allows people to sleep/rest/shower/chill and play VF all in one place, thereby maximizing everyone’s play time and making sure their trip is worth it! Housing Kyasao at one of our apartments or by playing mainly at Chinatown Fair Arcade wouldn't allow for that. (Although the loft is around the corner from Chinatown - so people may will probably still play on the arcade machine) Anyone who travels to play or attends gatherings knows that playing until the wee hours of the morning is what its all about!

You are an asshole by stating that we wish to profit from this somehow. Sal, Rodney, Nelson, Andy, and I all put up money to pay for airfare and rent this huge space (which cost about $1500 for one week). There is no intention to profit from this - we just would like to recoup most of the cost. We are not charging for the tourney. Pay-per-view? Bullshit! How is Evo2k3 different from this? There is great value here given the $20 bux fee (unlimited VF time against great comp AND a place to sleep and shower)! Again, nice try.

[ QUOTE ]
So yeah, what's wrong with the fact that new york has intentionally witheld invitations to SEVERAL top players in the US, probably the best this continent has to offer? It's their party, why should they invite players who can clown them in front of kyasao? If they feel threatened by these players then they should feel free to use past drama as an excuse to dick with the invitations.

[/ QUOTE ]

LOL - Clown us in front of Kyasao?! Threatened by FL?! *snort teehheee snort* Right. FL shouldn't flatter themselves, first of all. Actually, I'll just leave it at that...Second of all (as explained via PM to you and a few of your cronies), this is completely a friendship and loyalty issue with regards to Sal. I've known the guy forever, but I agree that he needs to put this shit behind him - that he is taking this waaaaaay out of hand. I dissed my nigga Sal by going against his wishes the past 3 times by inviting FL. However, he REALLY wanted to attend this event and offered a lot of monetary support to help make this event happen. Still, as i was sending out invitations, I thought about sending them to FL, but held off until i talked to Sal and perhaps get him to put this shit behind him. But before i can get back to FL , they get their tighty whities in a wad on IRC and resort to name-calling and spewing all kinds of bullshit! Honestly that left a real nasty taste in my mouth...

[ QUOTE ]
...that's bullshit. Invite only has never been kept quiet, and nobody outside of new york has even had the nerve to try it. You can fucking well bet if kyasao went to LA, guys like spot would be thrilled to have the chance to announce it on the board and coax people into coming. It's also safe to say that kyasao wouldn't be sleeping in a loft while 30 guys around him are playing on PS2s, he'd be hosted in someone's house and playing at public arcade for at least some of his stay. Ten guys would jump at the chance to host him.

[/ QUOTE ]

Sigh....About 2 years ago NY was crucified for not conducting invite-only gatherings via PMs and now we are crucified for holding invite-only via PMs. As I’ve explained before, given the short notice (we were just notified of Kyasao's vacation time not too long ago), we just didn't have the time/energy/resources to organize a truly "open" event! While I admire that many like Spotlite wouldn’t hesitate to publicly announce Kyasao's arrival and then organize a large event for the "good of the VF community", we simple don't feel we have to. I’m sorry to say, we don't feel like we OWE anybody anything - we don't want the burden or responsibility of trying to improve the scene. We love to play competitively and are content playing against players whose company we enjoy - it’s that simple. Again, we acknowledge people like Rich, Myke, and even yourself, in your efforts to help the scene grow, but it is just not our thing *shrug* You don't have to agree with this philosophy, but at least acknowledge that we are entitled to our beliefs.

[ QUOTE ]
Thankfully all the plane ticket stuff was just bullshit to make new york nervous. You gotta love pablo's sense of humor. Still! New york was prepared to fuck this guy out of FIVE HUNDRED BUCKS just to accomodate sal's psychosis. Jedi's not going because he's not on the sal "happy list"...

[/ QUOTE ]

Well first of all, Jedi would have been a complete moron to have made arrangements with not only no invitation, but not even any type of correspondence with Andy or myself! But had Jedi been retarded enuff, I would have done my best to change Andy's and Sal's mind - and Sal doesn't have too much beef with Jedi anyway, its B1 and IMF he wants to kill! LoL

[ QUOTE ]
Those of you with the balls, go ahead and speak out and let him know. Don't worry about new york rescinding your invitation. Fuck it. The more you try to protect your invitation by coddling assholes like crewnyc, sal, and yes... even adam... then more you are encouraging them to do invite only tournaments in the future.

[/ QUOTE ]

I wouldn't rescind anyone’s invitation. But to be honest, those that were invited and who apparently have problems with the way NY does stuff, you obviously won't have a good time right? So, do everyone a favor and don't come /versus/images/graemlins/smile.gif

I'm an asshole? Okay. People are entitled to their opinions. But, I've been organizing VF events for the past 4 - 5 years. I have held these events at the expense of my father's hotel business, and at the expense of comfort at my small apartment. But in the end, my only goal was to exhibit gracious hospitality. Anyone who has come to an NY event knows that I GO ALL OUT to make sure everyone is as comfortable as I can possibly make them. When you were here and I felt terrible about Andy giving you the wrong travel info, I totally waived the housing fee and even offered my father's hotel complimentary for you and your girlfriend in the future, should you two want to get away in NY. I try my best to make sure I offer everyone rides to and from the airport (I’m the only one who drives in NY Crew). The logistics are a nightmare for one person to handle! There are a couple who bitched about "sleeping on the floor at times" "and turning your head sideways to watch the games being played on the TV" - but you know what? Fuk em'. I mean did you guys come to play VF to your hearts content or what? You want supreme comfort, go to a Four Seasons. Sigh, how quickly people forget and how ungrateful some can be...

Say anything, but please don’t even try to mention that I try to take advantage of my attendees…

[ QUOTE ]
If the guys from new york are halfway decent, they won't rescind your precious invite over it. Personally, I don't think they're halfway decent, as far as human beings go. Maybe as VF players. But between mister violent nutcase, king troll, and the backstabber... I can't think of any reason aside from MONEY why anyone should go to see these dudes. They're arrogant, they're drama queens...

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm a backstabber as well now? Hmm..a few people would say that about you and the FL duo - how ironic. /versus/images/graemlins/grin.gif You can't think of any reason why peeps would want to play with us? Most people who have played with us in the past few years always have a great time and these same people are now our friends. As far as being arrogant/drama queens, these same adjectives can easily be applied to the two whose knobs you are slobbing now...

[ QUOTE ]
You'll get the same opportunity to get crushed by an inhumanly good player, but the nice part is that if you somehow do well at FSB, nobody's going to post a week later and delegitimize your wins by saying "tournaments mean nothing, you weren't good enough at casual gathering play". You can play in a relaxed drama free environment, and you aren't going to be limited to playing people the FLA crew "thinks" are good.

[/ QUOTE ]

Hmm...delegitamizing wins - sounds familiar! (cough - see VFTOPGUN thread - cough) /versus/images/graemlins/wink.gif That whole "tounaments mean nothing, you weren't good enough at casual gathering play" response by me was brought on by IMF/B1 baiting and trolling. I didn't come out of nowhere and say that - please get your shit straight. Players at this "secret" event will play in a relaxed environment and we didn't limit our invitations to players that we thought were good. I extended mass invitations to shit loads of random peeps on the messge boards - most of whom i've never met! We in no way were "rating" players. Again the reason why it wasn't a completely open event had everything to do with Sal's SERIOUS beef with FL duo, as well as time/resource restraints.

Furthermore, this event is (or was) a fairly small private event. Kyasao knows that there will be a few players present and that this event is by no means an exhibition of what the US in whole has to offer. We deliberately kept Kyasao and Famitsu's expectations about this event quite low - but yet they still wanted to attend and cover this event.

Your attempts to boycott this event are sad and lame. Those who were invited and who care about having unlimited quality vf time to improve their game immensely will attend anyway.

Nice try, and please stop the <font color="yellow">NY HATING</font>! /versus/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

This loft allows people to sleep/rest/shower/chill and play VF all in one place, thereby maximizing everyone’s play time

Heh, not everyone. Just those you deign to associate with.

And while I'm sure kyasao's a machine, I dunno about you, but I don't wanna sleep in the same room as 30 people on PS2s.

You are an asshole by stating that we wish to profit from this somehow. Sal, Rodney, Nelson, Andy, and I all put up money to pay for airfare and rent this huge space (which cost about $1500 for one week). There is no intention to profit from this - we just would like to recoup most of the cost. We are not charging for the tourney. Pay-per-view? Bullshit! How is Evo2k3 different from this?

Well for one thing it was a public tournament and nobody had to sweat an invite. For another thing, you're actually getting something for the money you give to evo2k3 staff. They don't charge you and say "well, we're gonna pay for a nice setup, and we expect a wad of cash from you if you come". They sell a DVD, one which is probably worth every cent. The last time you guys promised anything like that, the usual happened - andy flaked out and no DVD appeared.
While I'm sure the loft is nice, nobody asked for it, and you're attempting to charge for something that has ALWAYS been free traditionally. This is a PS2 gathering, no matter what the sleeping arrangements are.

But before i can get back to FL , they get their tighty whities in a wad on IRC and resort to name-calling and spewing all kinds of bullshit! Honestly that left a real nasty taste in my mouth...

Then you fucked up. You knew it'd get back to florida that this was happening, and you knew they'd scratch their heads and wonder where their invitations were. If you're accusing them of assuming the worst... you're right, they did, and they were right to. All you needed to do is send out a short PM explaining the situation with a few little words like "I'm working on it".

As for sal needing to put this shit behind him - we both agree, and we both know it's true. What message is this sending then? To sal's simplified view of everything, it's gonna be "sorry sal, you were right, we were wrong. No more florida, ok?" ... you just OKed his stupid little grudge, which has probably DOUBLED his determination to keep it until the end of time.

Sigh....About 2 years ago NY was crucified for not conducting invite-only gatherings via PMs and now we are crucified for holding invite-only via PMs.

This is deceptive. The real problem is that they're invite-only at ALL.
It doesn't matter how carefully you try to hide the invitations, people will talk.

we just didn't have the time/energy/resources to organize a truly "open" event!

Lies and bullshit justifications. There's plenty of time. You miraculously scrounged up the "resources" to fly all these japanese players out and rent a loft. What the fuck more did you need, a tour bus and catered food? Time and resources is not an issue and you know it. Even though you've got kyasao, it doesn't change the number of people who would show up drastically. People still have work and money issues and if they can't make it, it doesn't matter if jesus christ himself is attending.

No, this isn't a resource problem. You guys have said yourselves that three people in florida are practically the only guys who WEREN'T invited, and that aside from them, others should know they're welcome. You sent messages to dudes you don't even know, right? So this is just a cowardly justification to flat out tell florida "we're having a gathering with kyasao and you can't come".

You shouldn't dick around and try to finesse it next time, ad. Just post "NY gathering with kyasao. No scrubs" and then sent 3 pm's to florida telling them they can't come... rather than 30 PMs to the rest of VFDC telling them they're 'invited'.

You don't have to agree with this philosophy, but at least acknowledge that we are entitled to our beliefs.

Your philosophy of not sharing, not travelling, and not inviting is pretty fucked up. You're entitled to your "who cares about the scene" attitude, sure.
Let's see your reaction when people show up and don't pay their 20 bucks because they "don't really care about promoting the new york scene and don't owe new york anything". How would you feel if they knocked the crap out of kyasao or trashed the loft and then said "who cares if the japanese never come back? It's not my job to encourage the NAVF scene".


You can't proudly claim that you're putting up your own money and imply that other people owe you for this gathering... then turn around and say "we don't owe shit to anyone, and if you don't like it, too bad. That's our Official Philosophy."


Sal doesn't have too much beef with Jedi anyway, its B1 and IMF he wants to kill

And yet you guys STILL weren't gonna let him come. Moron or not, 500 bucks or not. If sal even sliiiightly has a broom up his ass about someone... poof, they can't come.


Say anything, but please don’t even try to mention that I try to take advantage of my attendees…

Fine, I can apologize for that. I hadn't realize kyasao wasn't buying his own plane ticket. And I -did- have fine accomodations at the last nyg. I had no complaints until after, when the drama started trickling in about "fla didn't really win that tournament" or "tournament play isn't legit anyway" and the 1,001 bits of bullshit andy spews (and which I've heard you spew in private). I also have a serious problem with kyasao being kept secret like this. So many people would like to play him, and you don't have the right to attempt to hide his visit from the rest of the community. That's true no matter how many fluffy pillows you put under people's asses while they're playing.

I'm a backstabber as well now? Hmm..a few people would say that about you and the FL duo - how ironic.

Yeah, guys like sal, THERE'S a real legit bit of support.

As far as being arrogant/drama queens, these same adjectives can easily be applied to the two whose knobs you are slobbing now...

I didn't see any drama come up when they invited you to FSB. In fact they put out a nice set of PM's (I'm told) specifically to prevent anger and drama.
You yourself are implying that you were cool enough with florida to try to get them invited... and it's clear they would be if it weren't for Sal. Why the sudden change of heart? You suddenly feel they're jerks for getting mad about their lack of invitations?

Your attempts to boycott this event are sad and lame. Those who were invited and who care about having unlimited quality vf time to improve their game immensely will attend anyway.

Nice try, and please stop the NY HATING!

You're right, it's sad and lame, but it's not sad that I'm attempting it... it's sad that people aren't willing to help the VF scene by discouraging guys like the NY crew from holding invite only tournaments, hiding tetsujin, and hoarding information. The scenes that say "fuck you, we don't owe you anything and we could care less about helping VF in north america" don't DESERVE the turnout you guys will probably get... groups that actively encourage the scene and are willing to play with anyone DO deserve it. But I guess with enough money you can buy a good turnout anyway.

PS: I can stop the ny hating just as soon as you guys stop the cowardly "invite-everyone-except-for-florida-just-to-coddle-sal" bullshit. As long as new york likes invite only tournaments, you're going to get all the shit I can possibly dish out. You guys are shameless. You want to paint this to be florida's fault, but let's keep a few things in mind -

-Fla never threatened to beat up or kill anyone.
-Fla never told anyone "You can't play here"
-Fla apologized for some trash talk that was perfectly understandable, given the circumstances (Sal. nuff said.)
Even pablo, who wasn't invited, said

Also, I think you should give all the florida guys a chance. We are not bad people. I know you hate us Piccolo, but have you ever met any of us. We are all very cool and down to earth. And Im sure you have a lot in common with us(even if were from a dumb state lol)

I am probably the most excited guy about the NYG3, I wanted to go so bad to the other NY gathering but it was invite only. All of us are for real. We know our game and are coming to show the rest of the country what we got.

I hope people realize we are not bad people or angry people or assholes, we are just like you guys, we play VF, and we play it well. We talk our jive but in the end theres no hard feelings.

Well, I hope to see you all at NYG3, its going to be a blast.

-NY has never apologized to florida for any of their own bullshit - the incessant smack, the trolling on irc and vfdc, the threats, this invitation farce.
-While florida was the flavor of the week to hate for about a month or so, they're now well liked and respected by apparently everyone except new york. Even guys like rich lightened up about them. New york has been on the VF community's shitlist forever though, at least 5 years. Mostly because no matter what kind of efforts guys like you might make, you can't keep fucktards like andy and sal in line.

Anyway, I'm glad you're not rescinding anyone's invitation. Doing otherwise would help the boycott, right? I hope you thought it through when you decided that, I might just make a surprise appearance. You'll probably have to pull sal off of me, being as I've called him about 1038 names. I'm looking forward to it! /versus/images/graemlins/ooo.gif

 

Theres two points i'd like to emphasize.

It saddens me to no degree hearing creed think that NYC ever hopes to turn a profit from an event. In regards to the financials, NYC has never turned a profit in ANY of the events that we have held. We have lose money every single time and will continue to do so. What Creed is forgetting is that we dropped over a grand on the loft and then also payed for Kyasao's ENTIRE trip to NYC airfare and all. Only a handful of people are staying the entire trip. Even if we doubled the number of people going and charged them $20 each per night we still wouldn't make the money back.

The second point is that no one really cares about this NYC/FL drama. (FL being 2 guys primarily and Jedi when it comes to Sal) It's exactly as I wrote it. It's between NYC/FL.. No one outside these two cities and teams cares enough to let it stop them from socializing and caring to play a game.
What is boils down to is a problem between NYC/FL. Almost all of us in NYC at this point have been offended somehow by either imf or blonde1.

Looking at a recent track record. I Hear about some video being made, I hear about Rodney getting annoyed and blondie and IMF and PM'ing him, I Hear Blondie upsetting Adam, and Sal is already upset from time past.

Why would we invite people whom we wouldn't enjoy playing VF with? If NYC wouldn't have a good time with FL around because they have openly acted like jerks at this point to us then why would we risk it screwing up the entire event for multiple people. Sal's annoyance at FL would trickle over to NYC.

It's also unfair to ask us to just accept it. Cause it is an NYC sponsored event, we are taking a big financial hit, and when we talk about FL -- its three guys that judging by their track record both old and recent actions are acting like kids who should apologize.

The way I deal with things is to actively seek out a phone number and call people up. I've described how cool it was that Owen would chime in over the phone just to say I hope this online BS doesnt affect our friendship. We handle things similarly here in NYC in a respectful fashion (most of the time). At this point it may even be too late and FL has continued to make the gap larger by writing/introducing media that offends NYC.

 

Just in reply to creed again about the financials. People have the full right to stay at any of the nearby hotels, its just that we presented an affordable and logistical way for people to stay together, hang out, and play VF. If they prefer to hotel it, they can always come and play anytime we are there. But then of course they would have to call us if we werent there and have to worry where we were. Kyasao has requested some non-vf related events so we have worked hard to arrange a few good dinners at affordable places and other fun events since famitsu will be covering it.

 

what other events? I'm just curious what a 'night on the town with a tetsujin' would look like.

GE

 

Having known both groups (90 percent online and 10 percent IRL, I'll admit it) ...

I can say that I honestly believe that any disrespectful behavior on the part of florida is in direct reaction to things new york has done, not the other way around.

You're trying to imply that they were jerks to you and that they owe you guys all an apology, but the video you're referring to is in direct response to the invitation snub... the whole tournament bullshit goes back to your irc trolling, and surprisingly a post adam made I think might have ruffled their feathers:

Should NYG3 have been comprised of MANY little tournaments? Maybe...as then people can get used to the tourney atmosphere, and we will see who consistently makes it to finals or wins. But one tournament once a year is not the best representation of a player's skills IMO, expecially if most of the participants never play in tournaments regularly!

Kind of implies it was a fluke, doesn't it?

Then there's antagonistic stuff like sal's "yes..there is an elite club n u r not a part of it!SHIT THE FUCK UP plz !! [ FUCKING NOOB !" post...there's your infamous "HAHHAA I called it!!!" irc crowing when florida lost in korea... there's sal threatening to beat this out of them over some retarded ICQ confusion where sal thought he was talking to you but it actually was blondie... then there's unprovoked junk like

« goose1 » it means without me in this team
« goose1 » there would be NO FL Scene
« goose1 » I invited them
« goose1 » to frolic
« goose1 » do you think they would have seen the "light"
« goose1 » I dount it
<CreeDo> lol you retard, florida developed their own scene with their own good playing amongst each other
<CreeDo> people expected them to suck because they hadn't traveled to major tournaments and hotspots
« goose1 » remember everyone elses attitude to FL was pretty hostile
<CreeDo> and they were wrong.
« goose1 » I welcomed them in
« goose1 » they did suck

You don't seem to get how much claims like that tend to piss people off.

Anyway, bottom line is that new york has ALWAYS pissed people off, so you can't claim your behavior is florida's fault. NY crew has been acting like an ass before anyone had ever heard of florida. If you want to not invite florida because you feel offended, that's cool, but it's a little like the KKK not inviting some black dudes to a barbecue and then saying it's because black people are antagonizing them constantly.

Man I can't believe I just made up that analogy
At least I didn't call you hitler though!

 

Sounds to me ny is in the wrong . I'm for fl, but really in the end all ppl wanna do here is play a nice game of vf right?? I just feel really bad this seems so important to mybe a majority of the top U.S players. I just hope that ny can stop being little children and grow up! JESUS NY COMMON!! /versus/images/graemlins/frown.gif /versus/images/graemlins/confused.gif

 

[ QUOTE ]
CreeD said:
I might just make a surprise appearance. You'll probably have to pull sal off of me, being as I've called him about 1038 names. I'm looking forward to it! /versus/images/graemlins/ooo.gif


[/ QUOTE ]

Now why the heck would you want still come after making the boycott Creed? That doesn't make sense. You should step down if you are invited, it would only make people uncomfortable at this point.

 

Why dont you reply to my financial comments huh? Not cute reply eh?

BTW the stuff you wrote is indeed FACT not fiction. The VFDC history and for that matter vfhome logs show plain as day that it was POST Frolic/NYG3 that FL was welcomed into the scene. Regardless of whether it could have been some other states gathering that welcomed them in, it was Frolic that actually did and thats how history occured. I was also the one who sent them the first invitation. So whats the point of the cute thread Creed? In person u may not know that IMF and Blondie1 told us at Frolic that it was the first time they got to play good live human competition and they got to see a level of VF play which they hadnt seen in person. So you're trying to say they were good enough to get good on thier own, sure true, but its like saying I can get good enough playing Tekken 4 through practice with NYC Tekkeners. The emphasis is on COULD, NOT, WILL AND WOULD HAVE 100% as you like to make it sound. We gave them a good strong local scene they could play against. We were the Yin/Yang, the Black and White and gave them reason to catch up so to say. At that time FL told us in PERSON that they didnt feel welcome by the VFDC community and that vfhome in particular was whack. We encouraged them to ignore you guys and to converse and practice to play us. So without good outside people inviting them in, how would they judge their skill level in the USA, no one else seemed to ask them. They would have had to wait for TiT or Evo2k and completely miss the Version C competition if they didnt attend Frolic and NYG3 the two big version C events.

So they way history went was like Frolic --->NYG3---->VFHOME it was post NYG3 that they were welcomed definately not pre. How would FL have been welcomed into the hands of VFHOME and VFDC when they were so openly rejected, you keep saying it would have happened eventually, but you guys treated them as badly as you are treat us. Also remember the most notorious of VFHOME members MR. Bungle said PRE NYG3 that he thought FL was WORSE than NYC.

Now I dont bring any of this up for years and you are trying. Anything you can try and find you will try Creed, so keep going.

 

I just want to go on record with something::

NO ONE AND I MEAN NO ONE FROM NY IS INVITED TO FSB EXCEPT PICCOLO. PICCOLO IS THE ONLY PERSON ALLOWED. THE REASON FOR THIS IS THAT I HAVE A SEXUAL ATTRACTION FOR PICCOLO AND IF ANYONE ELSE IS IN THE ROOM FROM NY, IM MIGHT GET JEALOUS AND UNCOMFORTABLE. THANKS


p.s. this is sarcasm, FSB is open to anyone who want to come. Im just poking fun at NY

 

Why dont you reply to my financial comments huh? Not cute reply eh?

Because if you take the time to read, you'll see I already addressed them when I replied to adam.

So whats the point of the cute thread Creed?

It shows how you can run around saying stuff that angers people with no real reason. To say they owe the existence of their scene to new york is bullshit. To say they suck is insulting. Bullshit + insults is your specialty, and you'll say it whether you're dealing with notorious smack talkers or with the nicest guys in the world (think guys like the goldens, who you've said suck, or myke, who you called a 'sukky player').

How would FL have been welcomed into the hands of VFHOME and VFDC when they were so openly rejected, you keep saying it would have happened eventually, but you guys treated them as badly as you are treat us.

That's dead wrong. I was going to bat for florida before they won a tournament and I was treating them like humans when it was still popular to bash florida. They don't "owe" you for their acceptance. Getting endorsed by new york doesn't make a player more popular or more accepted, it's pretty much the kiss of death in terms of popularity.

If you think new york's opinion about a player means shit to the rest of the world, why is florida still ok with everyone except you guys?

Now I dont bring any of this up for years and you are trying. Anything you can try and find you will try Creed, so keep going.

I'm gonna have to run that one through altavista.
I'll keep going though if it helps.

Florida, for all that they were unpopular for a short stretch, has never inspired the level of hatred and irritation that new york has. Why do you think that is? You're going to claim it's because people envy new york's playing ability, yet florida is obviously on the same level and they aren't getting banned and bitchslapped all the time.

So why is it andy? Got any theories yet? The answer is obvious, don't hurt yourself coming up with it.

 

It was a joke shang. You make them all the time, I figured you'd be able to spot one when you see it /versus/images/graemlins/smile.gif Obviously I have no intentions of being like "SAL! ANDY! WHAT UP SLUTS LET'S ALL GO GET A ROOM AND MAKE LOVE TIL THE BREAK OF DAWN!"

 

i like playing vf /versus/images/graemlins/wink.gif

 

Yeah yeah, No you didn't address my comments. You adressed Adams. Obviously you have nothing to say when it came to the financial comments cause you had no idea what you were talking about. Much like the rest of your arguments. Why do we have to hear a third party bickering for FL, why cant we hear it from the source? If they are so big and they believe every word you are saying, tell them to back up everything you said.

ENVY NY's Playing ability, PFFF thats so sad, your acting like a jealous little kid who can't get his candy and has to force his way in or you wont talk to me and trying to get VFDC to give NYC the silent treatment.