Are there any characters you think are too good in vf4 or vf evo?

I think what makes this series good is the precise balancing of characters. Jacky sometimes dishes out too much damage for his speed, but that's just me. Well, share the wealth. /versus/images/graemlins/cool.gif

 

I think Jacky's provides WAAAAY to big of a safety net for him, and promotes extremely boring gameplay. The most unexiting match i've seen in a long time was watching Neo Tower get beat by another, inferior Jacky in a tournament. I know the guy who beat him, who is quite a good player, but they just sat there doing the same old thing.

 

I personally don't think that there are too good

character in the game. The game is a such a well

balanced one for sure.

 

Personally, I think Jacky's been given more variety in Evo and isn't as boring as before. He's still strong, but I don't think he's too strong. Most characters in the game have a "safe" mid like that anyway, so why should Jacky be any different? IMO, he's been seriously toned down in the "mind-game" department, because his high kick cancel is gone, plus now requires a MC to float.

 

I don't like Evo Jacky as they tore up some of my favorite moves (the high kick fake and punt kick just to name a few) and I can't play the style of Jacky I wanted. I'm sure he's still good but "YAWN."

As for "a little to good" I'll have to be a hater and go with Akira. The guy has about like 2 moves that completely useless, practically everything else is at least usable, and he really has a bunch of easy mode combos in case you can't do the crazy stuff. Add on insane power, great throws, crazy dangerous long range moves, moves that give you mindgames for free, and it's no wonder practically almost every major tourney is won by an Akira player.

*Hater mode off* With that said VF Evo has good balance for what I can tell as every character has something too good maybe except for Shun (but why play him when Lei Fei is in the game) and compared to a ton of other fighting games VF fans have little to complain about.

 

All characters are balanced, it's the user that creates hinderances for themselves. Gaijin, your idea on boring is obviously visual. Because the mind games set up by an elbowing jacky are far from boring. Some would and some should never question the integrity of a move without consulting an expert. You are not an expert....I will leave it at that.

 

Blondie: If you're on the giving end, I can see. It's not just the elbows. Dodging anything that has a less than decent recovery time and beat-knuckling them to death is not my idea of high-level play, and I find it pretty boring. Sorry... just the way I see it. Jeff's Dodge->Knee->Follow up falls in the same category.

If there was more of a downside, I'd likely think different, but there isn't, so I don't. Sick of seeing people lose with one character, then whipping out their Jacky.

The fact stands though, it was a boring fight. You'd think when someone beats and expert like Neo Tower (if you think he's not an expert, you're gonna get BS called on you) you'd expect at least some ooh's and aah's -- NADA baby.

As for other characters having a quick mid like that, while other's have elbows, the only one that comes close is Lau.

But, that's what the chat messages are for. Nobody else seems to use any that are as low-blowing as mine though. /versus/images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

But....but....I like using Shun ;( . My friends arent really that great in VF4 since we dont play that often, and they rarely use Akira, but Ai's Akira is easy to beat.

 

Actually, the same argument could be made about Aoi. I once saw a Daioh clip where Guerilla dominated OhsuAkira with nothing but elbows/elbow cancels. The once lively crowd (previously cheering during Ohsu's win-streak) was now obviously bored during that match. IMO, it all boils down to how you play a character. I think you just hate all the characters you don't use (Jacky, Akira, Jeffry). /versus/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

Shun used to be my second favorite character but that all changed with VF4 when they start penalizing him for acting crazy. What is the point to playing Shun if you can't act crazy?

 

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Blondie: If you're on the giving end, I can see. It's not just the elbows. Dodging anything that has a less than decent recovery time and beat-knuckling them to death is not my idea of high-level play, and I find it pretty boring. Sorry... just the way I see it. Jeff's Dodge->Knee->Follow up falls in the same category.


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.....You've got to do a pretty big sensless move to get a dodge TE off and actually get the MC dodge and take BKnuckle on mC. You might want to respect jacky more. He's not just a punch and kicker anymore he has depth. Also, BKnuckle is only good now for punishing not as a reliable offensive attack. It's punch counterable on block(standing) and severly counterable(ducking the second hit) with the obvious change up from ver.C not allowing the third hit of the string to keep you honest =). There are PLENTY of moves that other characters have that can do More damage than that when a "decent-recovery" move is dodged. I'd like to ask what your definition of a decent recovery move is, cause for the BKnuckle to hit after a MC dodge the move has to be like -12? And if that is your option when i'm on the ropes, a -12 move or throw, you deserve to take that BKnuckle =P!


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As for other characters having a quick mid like that, while other's have elbows, the only one that comes close is Lau.


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??? pai swallow kicks? leifei f+p,p(w/all IN stance options? lau elbow. kage elbow?(w/ jumonji options?) goh "k"? brad elbow(w/sway options)? Aoi elbows(w/cancels). The only thing Jacky's elbow gives him really is one frame faster and -3 on block and you don't have to worry about any special properties afterwards. It's either move forward, move back, attack or throw. -3 on block basically means if you get a MC dodge you can't throw him garaunteed, and even at -4 and -5 garaunteed throw is hella hard to get when breaking throws also. You have to really anticipate the dodge. And now it's not even an elbow it's a punch...I just think your a hater at this point =P. I don't even know why i'm arguing, the thread topic is "Are there any characters you think are too good in vf4 or vf evo?". My character is the topic, he is just "TOO GOOD" =P. lates

 

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American_Pai said:

Shun used to be my second favorite character but that all changed with VF4 when they start penalizing him for acting crazy. What is the point to playing Shun if you can't act crazy?



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Sorry, I started the VF series with #4. Can you explain what you mean?

 

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MrMojo said:

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American_Pai said:

Shun used to be my second favorite character but that all changed with VF4 when they start penalizing him for acting crazy. What is the point to playing Shun if you can't act crazy?



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Sorry, I started the VF series with #4. Can you explain what you mean?

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Basically on the older VF games Shun wouldn't lose DP's if he fell on the ground so if you attempted to use a move like UF+K the only reprecussion practically was down attack or crazy fast grab. You could basically take off the wall chances and not lose your DPs. Now you suffer even if you connect with these moves which kill my ethusiasm for even attempting to use them in combat especially when you practically have to win a round to get DPs.

 

I think Jeffry is way overpowered!!!!

j/k

There's a pretty decent balance in Evo, even though there's some evidence to support the notion that Jeff is just a weak-ass joke...

ahem, j/k

Seriously, i don't really know that there is an overpowered character. Sure, Jacky's probably the most abusable character, but he was powered way down from ver.C, especially with regard to his . Pai is actually a contender, and Akira, while still very strong with lots of zero recovery nonsense, finally has some competition.

Lau is far less predictable in Evo with the new stance and new moves and all... although it feels like Kage is a little on the weaker side now (maybe AM2 just wanted to increase his difficulty). TFT is still gold, but everyone already knows to avoid the hell outta that, so he's got to rely on striking more and other throws.

I honestly believe that Brad is very, very dangerous in the right hands (as is any character). That sidekick of his has a whole helluvalotta priority, it seems.

Anyway, i'm done babbling. Back to population genetics...

 

No character is "too good", but that's also not saying the game is 100% balanced. I'd say Akira has an edge over a lot of characters making him better overall than some others. That's not to say he's too powerful, though, just that some other characters have to work harder to win. And I'm not saying Akira is easy to play and learn, I know to get good in Akira takes way more time and practice then someone like Jacky, but assuming you already got good enough to learn Akira's combos and setups and it's second nature pulling them off, then that's when I say some other characters have to work harder.

 

I'm not saying I don't respect Jacky as a player - it's the majority of the Jacky players that just don't float my boat. I'm not dissing you or anyone imparticular, just saying, Jacky matches tend to get boring to me - regardless of the outcome.

He may have depth, but when it comes down to it, he's still a "punching" character (I'm basing this more aesthetically than anything).

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There are PLENTY of moves that other characters have that can do More damage than that when a "decent-recovery" move is dodged

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Yeah, but on the whole, I don't see those moves over... and over... and over... and over... (which is the main bitch at hand).

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pai swallow kicks? leifei f+p,p(w/all IN stance options? lau elbow. kage elbow?(w/ jumonji options?) goh "k"? brad

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Pai swallow kick, while a good move, is in a different leage than any of the elbows.
Lei Fei's - while nice and can cause a stagger, isn't that quick, and recovery after only one isn't going to give as good of an advantage. And you only see it a couple of times a match.
Lau elbow - I mentioned this in the original post
Aoi's Elbows, while a good tool, are totally different from any of the others, b/c they've got the follow ups and recovery is not that fast. YOu can't sit there going
, , like you can w/ Jacky or Lau.

Dre:
I don't use Akira, Kage, or Goh, and I think they're pretty awesome, and REALLY fun to watch. If I learned another character, It'd be Kage, although I don't have the time or energy to put into learning another. My Vanessa and Pai suck bad enough considering I've got cards for them. My Lei Fei is pretty awful as well, despite his Dan-rank has gone almost as high as any other character of mine.


American Pai:
Evo Ver. A was worse than B for DPs. They added no ways to add DPs from ver C->Evo, but his new (and all variants) took off a DP. Ver. B they don't. + still takes off 3DPs. I wish they'd have a new move that added DPs. All in all, he's way stronger in Evo.

Re: Jeff
I think the one move that should definitely be tweaked is his hit-throw. I'm not against non-escapable hit throws (Aoi's got two), but I'm not for one that takes off half the bar, or at least close. I'd rather them make it weaker, or have two throws instead of one, where one is escapable.

 

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GaijinPunch said:
I'm not saying I don't respect Jacky as a player - it's the majority of the Jacky players that just don't float my boat.

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It's not the player it's the character. Jacky is just a boring character to "watch". He is a simple by design. As player skill increases the game becomes using the only most effective moves in the suitable situations. In Jacky's case, someone watching is gonna see p,f+p,d+p, throw 90% of the time. BORING! Surely the jacky player is thinking real hard, but a watcher isn't part of that.

 

Basically this is the most balanced fighter to date, but while VF Evo may be the most balanced, it still has some issues, especially when it comes to the less popular characters.

Akira- easy to win with, hard to play as. Many of Akira's striking attacks and basic combos are really simplistic to pull off, and do a fair amount of damage, but mastering him is insanely hard. A move that I think needs nerfing for him is his +, that tacks on tons of damage from like +, or from (counter hit). His throw game is also to good, not only does he have many directional throws, but catch throws, and wall throws too.

+++ or , the SpoD is also kind of cheezy, becuase it does around 70-80 damage depending on the hit type.

Mind games, Akira out of all of the players has the most potential for mind games, especially when you consider his reversals. Many times Mukki Akira has caught Jacky players abusing and ++, and he just plain out reverses them.

 

Spod is 67/76 not 70/80.

 

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It's not the player it's the character.

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I'll have to disagree with that. I've seen some high level Jackys that are fun to watch.