Advantage after elbow is evaded?

I am currently learning to incorporate frames into my play and I need some help interpreting frame data. At the moment, I only have an idea of which moves I can use against what type of attack. I've looked at Jean's command list and it says the following for his elbow attack (6):

Execution: 14 frames
Active: 2 frames
Total: 36 frames

Which means after the active phase, there's still another 20 frames for the whole action to complete(?).

From the wiki page, I read that a successful defensive move (DM) takes a total of 23 frames.

So am I right in thinking that if someone performs a very late DM - during any of the active phase of the elbow attack, I would have the advantage by 1 or 2 frames?

Thanks,

Chi

 

They cant evade during your active frames because you're already hitting them or they're in guard stun. They can only evade during the execution frames.

Your reasoning is sound though and you can sometimes retain advantage even if they evade successfully. It works best from regular .

 

The execution frame of an attack is actually the first active frame, so you'll have to be careful not to count that particular frame twice whenever making calculations for recovery frames. Make the choice to subtract either one frame from Execution phase category or from Active phase category.

Anyway, the result would be 21 recovery frames in the elbow example. However, what you're asking for doesn't really concern recovery frames. Only total frames stats are necessary whenever dealing with successful evades.

For an example, let's say that the defender successfully evaded Jean's elbow on the first start-up frame of move. Then it'll read like this:

36 [Total number of Frames of attack that's evaded] - 23 [evade/DM phase] = 13

So in an ideal scenario where the defender successfully evaded on the first start-up frame of an attack, there would be a possible maximum 13-frame window for the evader to perform the next action as the elbow animation completes. But consider that there will be at least one idle frame that passes before the command for the following move can be done, so it actually turns into a 12 frame window for a response attack to hit Jean after the successful evade of his elbow.

So basically all that could be done in this ideal situation is throw a high or low punch if you wish to hit Jean from an angle after successfully evading his elbow.

(3/31/13, 9:35 am ET Edit: It takes a few frames to crouch after doing a successful evade, so a low punch actually wouldn't hit in this situation. Also, most follow-up moves in a high punch string are guaranteed to hit from an angle after the initial punch hits.)

And keep in mind that the 12-frame margin could be less than that if you evade the elbow attack later than on the first start-up move. Then in this case Jean would be able to recover in time to block, or even sidestep, any attempted response attack from an angle.

Kruza

 

Thank you both for your replies.

However, I'm still not 100% sure... Sorry, I'm a slow learner.

The example in Kruza's post assumes both players perform the moves at the same point of time. So if we muddle the numbers a bit and say the person starts the DM at the 14th frame of the elbow attack animation (the frame just before the "hit" part of the move) and so evades the 15th frame (which means that's frame 1 of his DM?) does this translates to me with the (ever so slight) advantage?

Thanks again,

Chi

 

The input for the Defensive Move command to pull off an attempted evade can start as early as start-up frame #1 of an attack, which is the ideal scenario.

Frame #14 of Jean's elbow would be the first active frame where the move comes out on screen, and thus the opponent would get hit without being able to sidestep at all. So let's assume you mean frame #13 here instead.

If a successful evade of Jean's elbow start as late as frame #13 (the last start-up frame of move), then there will be 36 - 13 = 23 remaining number of frames for this attack to complete before Jean can perform any follow-up actions. A successful evade during that 23-frame span would leave no chance for the opponent to respond in any way while Jean recovers from throwing out the elbow [23 - 23 (evade phase) = 0 frame window]. And as a result, there would be no advantage for the successful evader in this case.

(3/31/13, 9:45 am Edit: Doing a successful evade against Jean's elbow on the 13th frame means that 12 frames of the attack has already passed before the start of the evade, which leaves 36 - 12 = 24 remaining number of frames for this attack to complete instead of 23. So there would be a 1 frame window as opposed to 0 in that situation for the successful evader (24 - 23 for evade phase). Still leaves no chance for the opponent to respond, though.)

Kruza

 

Ah... so the 14th frame is when something happens... I understand what you mean by counting the frame twice now! That's what confused me a little.

Thank you very much.

Chi

 

No problem man.

Also, this post is a heads up to let you know that some corrections were made a few minutes ago to my earlier posts. These corrections can be spotted in the Edit sections.

Kruza

 

Thanks!